OK so everybody believs government that they could not scramble jets to intercept or possibly shot down passenger jets on 9/11. Maybe that is true :dubious: but I wonder does not military has surface to air missiles simillar to the very effective Russian SAM-s.When the planes flew from Boston over New-York state there are dozens of air baes or other insttalations I’m positive that they must have some surface to air missiles in the bases.Those passenger jets could be easilly be shot down by the SAM-s no need for hot- shots jet pilots.
The military has plenty of SAM’s. What the military lacks, however, is a crystal ball that could have told members of the military that the planes were going to fly into the WTC. It was a surprise, you may recall. Therefore, the military wasn’t positioned on rooftops in the city and airbases beyond it with SAMs and other weapons. Perhaps future SAMs will have this clairvoyance programmed in; I for one hope that if that is the case, some practical civilian applications are developed from that as well.
So, the SAMs would have been about as useful as the ‘hot-shot jet pilots’ for the WTC attacks. Given the remote area in Penn. where the fourth plane went down, it is highly unlikely any ground-based SAMs would have been in position to reach that plane, whereas a fighter, manned by a ‘hot-shot jet pilot,’ would have a much greater chance of reaching the airspace in which the passenger jet was flying.
There are surface to air missiles on top of White House right?When one of the jets was coming in low trajectory and in the direction of Washington why the did not shoot it down?People who operate radars of those missiles are not dummies they knew very well what to do but were ordered to stand down.
There were none on September 11th.
The planes were not near Washington DC, either.
Maybe they could have a submarine that takes off from an aircraft carrier’s deck that can shoot down planes with SAMs?
Having also read nonpolar’s post in GD about aircraft carriers, this was pretty damned funny! Sorry, I have nothing else to add.
Good, good stuff, lno.
Anticipating Nonpolar’s next post, can someone with more knowledge of DC than I give the distance between the White House and the Pentagon?
And doesn’t the Pentagon have a lake in its courtyard, and doesn’t that lake have an escort-sized submersible fission-powered flattop that can convert itself into Optimus Prime for office holiday parties, a fun Optimus Prime with an AI/Karoake interface? Why couldn’t he have just batted the planes out of the sky with his big Autobot remote arm/marital aid?
I would be shocked if the White House and the Pentagon were separated by more than two miles, as the crow flies. They’re quite close together.
As for SAM’s, they’re now deployed at locations around DC. I have to walk past a mobile battery everyday.
Doh. Mea culpa; I thought “Boston, NY, Pennsylvania” and omitted the Pentagon.
That being said, though, my comment about submarines stands.
So, you’re saying that as soon as the military sees any low-flying planes in an urban area, they should shoot them down immediately? What if it’s just an airliner flown by a responsible pilot, but which is having engine troubles and needs to make an emergency landing? And if you just fire away at it, where do you think it’s going to come down? There are no good places for a plane to crash in a city.
I hope this isn’t aimed at a tin foil hat so I’ll answer it truthfully. The Patriot is a very effective anti aircraft missile. We don’t have that many. We have enough to defend ourselves against an armed advesary with an air force but not enough to cover the entire country. You would need something like a Patriot battery every 50 miles or so. Look up the capabilities of the system its easy enough to do and I’m not going to do your footwork for you. Imagine if any President before 9/11 told the country he was going to deploy anti aircraft batteries around the country to protect its citizens against commercial aircraft. :rolleyes: You may be positive of there being ADA assets at every military base but you would be wrong. ADA is usually a corps level asset. I’m not telling you anything you can’t find out online for yourself.
Having Stingers around certain sites may keep a plane from reaching its target but the results might be mixed in a high density area.
I also wanted to say that I find it funny that most people who put down the military for perceived incompetence turn around and question why they aren’t omnipotent.
Good point, Loach.
<slight hijack> am I the only one with the distinct impression that nonpolar is the lost Festrunk Brother? If you search his other threads, you’ll find he’s a ‘Cockausian’ male and a breast examiner. (extra points for you if you get the Festrunk Brothers reference)
<//slight hijack>
Even if there were SAM batteries in position and the jets flew within range, there still has to be someone to give the order to fire. Before 9AM on 9/11, the country was at peace and no one even dreamed that shooting down passenger airliners was ever going to be an issue. Today, we’re looking out for it. But on that day, even if there had been a missile battery in shooting range, the commander would have to be told to open fire and by all accounts the confusion between the FAA and NORAD would have made an order to fire with a clear target almost impossible.
You are :dubious: , but have you actually read the timelines? The 9/11 Commission Report is a good place to start.
EZ
Good point, Loach.
<slight hijack>
am I the only one with the distinct impression that nonpolar is the lost Festrunk Brother? If you search his other threads, you’ll find he’s a ‘Cockausian’ male and a breast examiner. (extra points for you if you get the Festrunk Brothers reference).
<//slight hijack>
On September 10, 2001, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the ONLY military SAM units which were equipped to shoot down ANYTHING were on specific military missile ranges (White Sands, Onslow Beach) on VERY few military bases ONLY if they happened to have a live fire shoot scheduled weeks in advance. The US did NOT maintain crews with live missiles set up at strategic locations to defend our skies at a moment’s notice. Live missiles are kept in the armory, not on the launchers, not at the firing unit, when military units are stateside (still speaking of Sept 10 and before here). The reaction time to get the missiles out of storage and ready is greater than the time available that day by several orders of magnitude.
Furthermore, I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of Stinger Missiles and trained security personnel atop the White House during this time either (mostly because I do not know for sure), but again, dollars, doughnuts.
The Stinger’s effective range is only 8km (publicized), so there is not a lot of reaction time.
UncleBill
Major, USMCR
Former Stinger Missile Officer
Since the OP seems to be dealt with I don’t feel bad about hijacking this thread. Have you noticed how the phrase “I would bet dollars to doughnuts” has lost its meaning? Doughnuts at a doughnut shop or coffee shop can cost more than a dollar each. :smack:
That said, I do agree completely about there being few SAM units ready to shoot down anything that morning.
Can you imagine what would have happened if the OP’s proposal had been carried through?
“US Military shoots down unarmed passenger planes. Officials claim they may have been hijacked, and the hijackers were possibly planning on crashing them into high-value targets.”
Can you imagine the threads that would have been started here? Can you imagine the outcry there would have been across the country? There would still be a 9-11 Commission, but it would have focused on what the hell the military was thinking.
Now there are - there weren’t before September 11. It wasn’t seen as necessary.
Because it would really mess up the air traffic at Washington National Airport something awful.
Due to the proximity of the airport to the Pentagon, Whitehouse, and other DC icons, and the fact that airliners can not take off and land vertically, you have a choice between closing the airport permanently or tolerating relatively low-flying aircraft in the vicinity.
I have a very different opinion on this subject. They were not searching and scanning with the ready round on their shoulders, but I am very confident they were there. I do not know for a fact, but I would LOVE to hear your position that makes you state that they were not there. Do you have a connection with the Secret Service?
You need to hit Krispy Kreme, dude. A dozen is much less than $12 in my area.