Does the US Lead in Anything?

[Hyperelastic]

sailor, I believe you are the one who is misinformed. From here,

The years differ because I took the latest available.

2006 inflow into US = 1.3 million

Germany, 2003 = 602,000
France, 2004 = 140,000
Austria, 2001 = 75,000
Belgium= 69,000
Finland, 2001 = 11,000
Ireland, 2005 = 70,000
Netherlands, 2002 = 100,000
Sweden, 2001 = 25,000
UK, 2006 = 143,000

Remember, these are legal entries. There are anywhere from 500,000 to a million illegal immigrants to the US per year, depending on who you ask.
As to your claim that nobody has said America is not doing something right, please. Read constanze’s comments, and read the OP. The OP was clearly looking for positives, but all constanze has provided are negatives, or what she (he?) thinks are negatives.

Here is one interesting thing I did notice: according to that website, there has actually been more immigration from the US to Germany than vice versa in recent years. I suspect it has more to do with the policies of the receiving nation than the desires of immigrants, but still, interesting. Immigration to Germany is incredibly high, much higher than I thought it to be. However, the majority of it is from Eastern Europe, which may not really be applicable because the EU is under a single legal framework.

[Racer1]

McDonalds!
Wal-Mart!
The Gap!
Baseball!
NFL!
Rock and roll!
The Internet!
Slavery!
Starbucks!
Disney world!
Porno!
Valium!
Reeboks!
Fake Tits!
Sushi!
Taco Bell!
Rodeos!
Bed bath and beyond!

F**K YEAH!

[Chingon]

Lets face it, this is a non-debate.

There is nothing the US leads in that is positive. Anything mentioned can be qualified away or compared to a different subset of nations.

Someone asked the question and I answered. It cannot be factually denied that the United States leads the world in highest average capacity wind power, and inevitably will lead in total generated wind power. If you want to quibble that per capita is the only real measure you are free to do so, but the fact remains that the US does lead the world in something that should be considered positive.

The rest of the ones I mentioned are rock solid, but I am sure you find a way to turn them into something negative.

[sailor]

@Hyperelastic

Although the U.S. accepts more legal immigrants than all other countries in the world combined,

@Hyperelastic

sailor, I believe you are the one who is misinformed. From here,

The years differ because I took the latest available.

2006 inflow into US = 1.3 million

Ok, now you have to show me all other countries in the world collectively took in fewer than 1.3 million immigrants in 2006 (which I doubt).

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@sailor

What does that have to do with what I posted? The fact is America spends as % of GDP much more than most, if not all, other countries. It has more carriers than the rest of the world as has been said. etc. Why this need? Who is going to invade America if it halved its military budget? My point is that I am troubled by this common attitude of many Americans taking so much pride in their military spending and might. Specially when large portions of the population could use the money for better purposes and when America is doing all that military spending on credit and running up a huge deficit. It just seems to me foolish.

To me Americans who boast “we’re #1 militarily and we can beat the crap out of any country who annoys us” I consider little better than street punks. Sure they can beat my ass and I’ll try not to cross them but I have no respect for them. To me they are scum.

Maybe he was referring to the the fact that our very large military is also very well paid, particularly the officers, when compared to other militaries, and we eat very well too. Feeding, training and paying the people in the military has to account for a huge chunk of the military spending.

[sailor]

@Chingon

Lets face it, this is a non-debate.

There is nothing the US leads in that is positive. Anything mentioned can be qualified away or compared to a different subset of nations.

Someone asked the question and I answered. It cannot be factually denied that the United States leads the world in highest average capacity wind power, and inevitably will lead in total generated wind power. If you want to quibble that per capita is the only real measure you are free to do so, but the fact remains that the US does lead the world in something that should be considered positive.

The rest of the ones I mentioned are rock solid, but I am sure you find a way to turn them into something negative.

It seems to me you are the one who qualified it to be “average capacity etc” so to obtain the result you wanted. And I have already said anyone can qualify for a record in the Guinness Book of Records if you make enough qualifications.

I have explained why I believe absolute figures do not mean so much in certain cases and that it makes more sense to use percapita or percentage. America cannot be said to lead the world in wind power in any meaningful way when other countries get a much higher percentage of their power from wind power.

I have also explained why I believe it makes more sense to compare the USA with the EU rather than with Germany and compared to the EU America is way behind in wind power and will not catch up any time soon.

[sailor]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

we eat very well too.

Now that you bring up obesity, does America lead in obesity or is that just a common misconception?

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@sailor

Now that you bring up obesity, does America lead in obesity or is that just a common misconception?

Well, I wasn’t bringing up obesity, I was referring to our military being well-fed (almost all of whom are decidedly NOT obese), but since you brought it up…we probably do lead in that category, per capita, but I honestly don’t feel like dredging through google to find out. I have a Big Mac to eat.

[Chingon]

The US also leads in the following categories (some good, some bad, some both)

Average years of schooling of adults

Awarding New Citizenships

Cotton Exports

Coarse Grain Production (and Consumption)

Motor Vehicle Deaths

[sailor]

@Chingon

The US also leads in the following categories (some good, some bad, some both)

Average years of schooling of adults

Awarding New Citizenships

Cotton Exports

Coarse Grain Production (and Consumption)

Motor Vehicle Deaths

Again, I believe each category would need to be explained and supported but off the top of my head I believe the rate of motor vehicle deaths in America is very good and much lower than in other countries due to a mixture of good roads, good driving education and good driving habits. I would say the USA leads or is a world leader or has been a leader in road safety.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@sailor

Again, I believe each category would need to be explained and supported but off the top of my head I believe the rate of motor vehicle deaths in America is very good and much lower than in other countries due to a mixture of good roads, good driving education and good driving habits. I would say the USA leads or is a world leader or has been a leader in road safety.

That and the fact that many, many nations have drivers that are complete maniacs. Like in Rome, or Tokyo.

[toadspittle]

@sailor

I am not sure what you mean by “web design and technologies” or how they can be measured. I work in the telecomm field and have just returned from the Broadband trade show in Brussels. The USA is not first in any category I can think of. Look at broadband subscribers for instance. …

You’re speaking of infrastructure and usage. I was speaking about exactly what I said, Web design. By “technologies,” I mean the software used to implement Web designs. Measuring it, though, would be more difficult—I wouldn’t even know where to look for numbers on which nation has the highest number of Web designers or Web design firms (total or per capita), which has the greatest specialization in the field (user experience designers, visual designers, information architects, interaction designers, developers, database engineers, software engineers, usability experts…), which has the highest total revenue in the Web design field, etc. And then there’s a giant qualitative issue of whose Web sites are “better.” But the qualitative impression from foreign colleagues is that the USA is much more vital in this area, and is setting the trends that other nations follow within a year or two.

[Hyperelastic]

@sailor

Ok, now you have to show me all other countries in the world collectively took in fewer than 1.3 million immigrants in 2006 (which I doubt).

Well, look. I spent a while pulling data for the majority of the countries that are significant recipients of immigrants (the list isn’t that long - hardly anybody is immigrating to China, or Guatemala, or the Congo). The total is well shy of 1.3 million, and not even close to 1.3 million plus illegal immigrants.

If you want to prove me wrong, feel free to take it from here.

[Hyperelastic]

@constanze

Number one among the top twenty industrialized nations in…

military spending
…

I also think you have the highest number and percentage of poor children and the lowest amount of social help for your population among industrialized nations.

Yes, US taxpayers spent what surely must amount to several trillion dollars militarily protecting Western Europe from Joe Stalin and his successors, not to mention rebuilding Europe after its self-inflicted war via the Marshall Plan, the Berlin Airlift, etc.

How many free lunches, medical checkups and schoolbooks for poor American kids does that add up to? Can we expect the EU to return perhaps one percent of that money to help us with the problems you point out with such relish?

[sailor]

@Hyperelastic

Well, look. I spent a while pulling data for the majority of the countries that are significant recipients of immigrants (the list isn’t that long - hardly anybody is immigrating to China, or Guatemala, or the Congo). The total is well shy of 1.3 million, and not even close to 1.3 million plus illegal immigrants.

If you want to prove me wrong, feel free to take it from here.

Ok, from OECD Statistics

The USA does not even admit as much as Germany and Spain together, much less than the rest of the world. Note that the EU has higher absolute numbers and higher per capita numbers. Spain admits per capita about 5 times as many as the USA.

Year 2005 total inflow of foreign population

United States    1122.373
Spain             682.711
Germany           579.301
United Kingdom    407.000
Japan             372.329
Korea             266.300
Canada            262.236
Australia         167.319
France            134.781
Turkey            131.600
Austria           101.455
Switzerland        94.400
Belgium            77.411
Netherlands        63.415
Czech Republic     58.576
New Zealand        54.124
Sweden             51.297
Ireland            51.000
Mexico             39.475
Poland             38.512
Norway             31.355
Portugal           28.092
Hungary            18.809
Luxembourg         13.512
Finland            12.744
Slovak Republic     7.665

[Siam_Sam]

@sailor

A silly thought I would say. Are you proposing that in Europe, Japan and other developed countries prison populations are low because criminals run rampant and free? Or because police shoot suspects on sight therefore obviating the need for prisons? I find that just plain silly.

I think the explanation is to be found in the different social structures. American society has much less family and social cohesion than other developed countries and I believe there lies the cause. I believe that as, due to immigration and other reasons, European societies lose some of that cohesion crime and prison population will rise. The only way to avoid it is to fully integrate immigrants and other people who are not fully integrated and that is a very difficult task.

Crime and prison population are not evenly spread across American society. Those segments with stable family and social bonds have much lower rate of people incarcerated than segments with disfunctional family and social bonds. The same thing happens in every other country. The difference is that in other countries those bonds are stronger and the segment which is outside those bonds is much smaller. I would think that as immigration grows in Europe, if those immigrants are not well integrated then crime and prison populations will rise.

But to propose European countries might have a low prison population because criminals are allowed to run free is just silly.

On the other hand and come to think about it another factor may be that some things which in America would land you in prison in Europe would be dealt with other types of punishment like fines or community service. I am thinking of smoking pot and such things.

I don’t think it was a silly point. At least, I don’t think it was any sillier than endless refrains of (insert Mr. Mackey voice here): “America is bad, mm’kay?”

It was just a thought, as I said. Of course, that was comparing developed and undeveloped countries, and I certainly did not mean to suggest that Japan or Switzerland were gunning down their criminals. But I do wonder – it’s just another thought, and no doubt this will be considered silly, too, silly person that I am, but here it is – I wonder if perhaps once you get into larger populations, the logistics of governing it become so complicated that crime rates increase exponentially rather than proportionately. Perhaps it’s not a case of: “Well, there’s 1000 people over here, and of them there are 20 criminals, so when we look at 100,000 people over there, we should find only 2000 criminals.” Perhaps its unfair to expect this automatically, although not unfair to work towards keeping it down. Perhaps it is inevitable that you will see even larger percentages of people who are disgruntled, or whatever you care to put criminal activity down to. Couple that with more efficient law-enforcement procedures, and maybe you’re going to get a larger prison population.

Whatever it is, I do believe the situation is much more complicated than many people make it out to be.

[sailor]

@Hyperelastic

Yes, US taxpayers spent what surely must amount to several trillion dollars militarily protecting Western Europe from Joe Stalin and his successors, not to mention rebuilding Europe after its self-inflicted war via the Marshall Plan, the Berlin Airlift, etc.

How many free lunches, medical checkups and schoolbooks for poor American kids does that add up to? Can we expect the EU to return perhaps one percent of that money to help us with the problems you point out with such relish?

This would lead to a totally different discussion. Yes, America spent a lot of money defending Europe but it was not done out of disinterested love but out of self interest. Like in Iraq now, when local governments have asked the USA to vacate the premises the USA has dragged its feet as much as it could so it’s not like they were there just because they were invited. Let’s face it, everybody is acting out of self interest. European countries too. The USA takes care of military matters but gets to decide the tune to be played. The Europeans have surrendered part of their independence and sovereignty in exchange for saving a few coins. Nothing to be proud about on any side.

America is spending that oney because they want to be top dog not because they want to help anyone. Europe today is fully capable of taking care of their own defense if they wanted to but they’d rather just pay Uncle Sam.

[sailor]

@Siam_Sam

I wonder if perhaps once you get into larger populations, the logistics of governing it become so complicated that crime rates increase exponentially rather than proportionately. Perhaps it’s not a case of: “Well, there’s 1000 people over here, and of them there are 20 criminals, so when we look at 100,000 people over there, we should find only 2000 criminals.” Perhaps its unfair to expect this automatically, although not unfair to work towards keeping it down. Perhaps it is inevitable that you will see even larger percentages of people who are disgruntled, or whatever you care to put criminal activity down to. Couple that with more efficient law-enforcement procedures, and maybe you’re going to get a larger prison population.

Well, that is silly as well. Why on Earth would you propose that? Do you have any evidence? China and India have much bigger populations than the USA and do not seem to suffer from this “logistics of governing” problem. Europe as a whole has greater population and also does not suffer from that syndrome. Would it mean that smaller countries like Somalia should be extremely easy to govern and have low crime rates?

It just seems to me you are trying to make up excuses without any basis in fact. It seems to me you are somehow trying to propose the idea that the USA is somehow unique and the high incarceration rate is somehow excusable when it would not be in other countries.

[Siam_Sam]

@sailor

Well, that is silly as well. Why on Earth would you propose that? Do you have any evidence? China and India have much bigger populations than the USA and do not seem to suffer from this “logistics of governing” problem. Europe as a whole has greater population and also does not suffer from that syndrome. Would it mean that smaller countries like Somalia should be extremely easy to govern and have low crime rates?

It just seems to me you are trying to make up excuses without any basis in fact. It seems to me you are somehow trying to propose the idea that the USA is somehow unique and the high incarceration rate is somehow excusable when it would not be in other countries.

Just speculating. Silly, I know. :rolleyes:

[Hyperelastic]

@sailor

The USA does not even admit as much as Germany and Spain together, much less than the rest of the world. Note that the EU has higher absolute numbers and higher per capita numbers. Spain admits per capita about 5 times as many as the USA.

Are you sure those are immigration numbers, or just foreign entries (90-day visas, temporary guest workers and the like)? It lists 372,000 entries for Japan, but Japan does not accept permanent immigrants at all.

Also, for EU countries, much of the flow is from other EU countries. Considering there is such a thing as “EU citizenship”, it’s hard to characterize that as immigration any more.

America is spending that oney because they want to be top dog not because they want to help anyone. Europe today is fully capable of taking care of their own defense if they wanted to but they’d rather just pay Uncle Sam.

Pay Uncle Sam? Since when?