Does the US Lead in Anything?

[Measure_for_Measure]

@sailor

I have also explained why I believe it makes more sense to compare the USA with the EU rather than with Germany…

I’ve looked for that explanation, but I couldn’t find it. (Sorry).

As I have already said, I think in most cases per capita comparisons are more meaningful but if we are to compare absolute numbers then I would say the EU has a larger economy than the USA and many absolute figures will be higher in the EU. For example, I am guessing the EU would be ahead of the USA in total energy consumption but would be behind the USA on a per capita energy consumption.

I tend to like adjusting for scale, so per capita, share of GDP and more generally inflation-adjusted figures are preferable in my view.

Taking another poster’s link to the CIA factbook, here are the GDP figures (PPP adjusted):

1 World 65,610,000,000,000 2007 est. 2 European Union 14,430,000,000,000 2007 est.
3 United States 13,780,000,000,000 2007 est. 4 China 7,099,000,000,000 2007 est.
5 Japan 4,272,000,000,000 2007 est. 6 India 2,966,000,000,000 2007 est.
7 Germany 2,807,000,000,000 2007 est. 8 United Kingdom 2,130,000,000,000 2007 est.
9 Russia 2,097,000,000,000 2007 est. 10 France 2,075,000,000,000 2007 est.

Currently, the EU is less than 5% bigger than the US (after adjusting for purchasing power parity). So, I would say that the 2 markets are, “Roughly the same size”.

I would guess that the total energy consumption of the US exceeds that of the EU.

In general, I think that the US leads in plenty of fields (see my list of businesses for some examples), though often the social measures are a little low, when compared with other high income countries.

[sailor]

@Hyperelastic

Are you sure those are immigration numbers, or just foreign entries (90-day visas, temporary guest workers and the like)? It lists 372,000 entries for Japan, but Japan does not accept permanent immigrants at all.

Also, for EU countries, much of the flow is from other EU countries. Considering there is such a thing as “EU citizenship”, it’s hard to characterize that as immigration any more.

Well, see? We can qualify and analyze everything to the point where nothing makes any sense. Of one thing I am perfectly sure and that is that your assertion that the USA takes in more immigrants than the rest of the world combined is false. Now, depending on how you define and count what and who is an immigrant then you might need to count one or two more countries but I am quite certain the EU takes in more immigrants than the USA no matter how you count them. Spain has huge numbers of Moroccans, Equatorians, Dominicans, Chinese, etc. Not to mention the illegal subsaharan africans who, as I said, are arriving daily.

Pay Uncle Sam? Since when?

You really think America pays for all those bases? The cost of those bases is greatly paid for by the host countries. And the first Iraq war was paid for mostly by America’s allies. Bush the father was quite a statesman and put together a coalition which paid for most of the cost of the war. America got a great deal there. Unfortunately his son, full of stupidity and arrogance, thought to himself “we don’t need no stinkin’ coalition or allies, we’ll go it alone” and look where that road had lead.

[sailor]

@Hyperelastic

Considering there is such a thing as “EU citizenship”, it’s hard to characterize that as immigration any more.

Just to clarify this point, I do not believe there is such thing as a “EU citizenship”. Passports are issued by the individual countries but there are treaties which allow free movement, the Schengen treaty etc. It is rather complex and I am not well versed. I do accept your point that “not all immigrants are created equal”. Maybe we could arrive at a formula where immigrants from other EU countries would count as 3/5 of a “real” immigrant. Or something like that.

[Hyperelastic]

@sailor

You really think America pays for all those bases? The cost of those bases is greatly paid for by the host countries. And the first Iraq war was paid for mostly by America’s allies. Bush the father was quite a statesman and put together a coalition which paid for most of the cost of the war. America got a great deal there. Unfortunately his son, full of stupidity and arrogance, thought to himself “we don’t need no stinkin’ coalition or allies, we’ll go it alone” and look where that road had lead.

I never said America paid for all of Europe’s defense, only that American taxpayers have contributed several trillion dollars to Europe’s defense. When was the last time Europe helped to defend American soil? Was it the Marquis de Lafayette?

The European contribution to the first Gulf War was 10% or less in terms of money and troops. Most of the cost was paid by Arab states.

You won’t find me defending G. W. Bush, but his actions have damaged the U.S. far more than they have damaged Europe.

Maybe we could arrive at a formula where immigrants from other EU countries would count as 3/5 of a “real” immigrant.

If we are to make immigration policy on the basis of gratuitous historical irrelevancies, then I am sure you’ll agree that all Jewish immigrants will count zero.

[sailor]

@Hyperelastic

I never said America paid for all of Europe’s defense, only that American taxpayers have contributed several trillion dollars to Europe’s defense. When was the last time Europe helped to defend American soil? Was it the Marquis de Lafayette?

Again, this is a matter of semantics. NATO countries contributed air defense in North America after 9/11 but I would argue that NATO is a mutual defense organization and therefore all NATO members have contributed to the mutual defense all along.

The European contribution to the first Gulf War was 10% or less in terms of money and troops. Most of the cost was paid by Arab states.

wikipedia

The cost of the war to the United States was calculated by the United States Congress to be $61.1 billion.[52]. About $52 billion of that amount was paid by different countries around the world: $36 billion by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf States; $16 billion by Germany and Japan

You won’t find me defending G. W. Bush, but his actions have damaged the U.S. far more than they have damaged Europe.

Well yes, maybe. I am not sure what the point is. America’s policies (for they are America’s not Bush’s policies) have caused widespread damage to America’s interests, to world peace, to Iraq, to the lives of the hundreds of thousands who have died or suffered injuries of had to flee as a result of his policies… I guess we agree.

If we are to make immigration policy on the basis of gratuitous historical irrelevancies, then I am sure you’ll agree that all Jewish immigrants will count zero.

I was just conceding the point that it is difficult to make exact comparisons because circumstances are not exactly the same.