does this violate separation of church and state?

Just a quick hearkening back to the OP–
eggo, please refer this matter to the ACLU. You have heard the opinions we’ve all expressed on this board, and most people think you have a case. If you do refer it, this is a debate we could actually see settled, which isn’t exactly an everyday thing round these parts.

Please, eggo, do ask the ACLU about this. Even if you don’t confront the school. You can contact the local chapter in your area.
Many inquiring minds want to know. :slight_smile:
Peace,
mangeorge (Curious as hell.)

And, tell us what happens when you do contact the ACLU. Or your principal. Maybe the principal is the 1st step.

Please read the original post.

The teacher is listening to the radio for her own benefit. She is not teaching Christianity or requiring assent to her beliefs as part of the curriculum.

The issue that offends the OP is that he does not care for what she is listening to.

The situation is quite similar to wearing a crucifix (or yarmulkeh, or that Darwin fish symbol with legs that I have seen on bumper stickers). The fact that you are able to detect that someone holds opinions with which you disagree gives you no right to stifle it.

A side note - some posts seem to believe that only the Supreme Court can interpret the Constitution, and therefore any rulings made to date fix the issue for all time. I would disagree. Plessy v. Ferguson as opposed to Brown v. Board of Education, for instance.

It is not necessary that it be part of the curriculum. Hanging the Ten Commandments on the wall or putting a statue of Mary in the school lunchroom is not making it a part of the curriculum either. And in those cases, at least someone could look away. Here the stuff is unavoidable.

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In other words, he is forced to listen to religious content presented by a teacher, against his will. Yes, that indeed is the problem. Whenever a SOCAS case is brought before the court it is because somebody has a problem with it. What’s your point?

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Hardly. Wearing a religious symbol is not analagous to providing a religious message. It certainly is not the equal of hours of hymns and religious moralizing. For one thing, the messages being relayed are unavoidable by the students. It is a constant, continuous stream of proclamations about the joys of Christianity.

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Ok. For the sake of an honest debate on the matter, can you at least agree that no right put forth in the Constitution has ever been held as an absolute right? Every means of self expression is regulated in some fashion. Nobody here has ever suggested in any way that the teacher cannot express her opinions, listen to the music she likes, read whatever book she cares to, or anything of the sort. She just cannot do so in a manner that forces a religious message down a student’s throat while he is forced to sit there listening.

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Well of course the Court may decide to reverse itself. Have you seen any indications of this recently on these matters? Just a few weeks ago they struck down a school’s practice of letting students offer public prayer at football games, even though the policy was that the students themselves elected who would speak, and the speech did not have to be prayer. It was a nice way for the Christian majority in the school to use their numbers to force everyone else to listen to their schtick, and the SC saw it immediately. (Didn’t help the school’s case that this policy was put in place of another policy advocating public prayer right after that policy was struck down.)

So according to your logic, if I was a teacher, and I played a Marilyn Manson CD(Even though I don’t care for it), I would be allowed, even if everyone is offended simply because I am the teacher? What if I show the class the whole “Justify My Love” video to students, simply because I am the teacher? There are too many “what if’s”, but this is my oppinion of religion in schools:

Nothing more than a religious symbol on your necklace or bracelet. If you need to pray at certain times, go in another room or plan to have that period off or what-have-you, but no student in a public school should have any religon ‘shoved down their throat.’ It doesn’t matter if it’s Athiesm, Christianity, Paganism, Judiasm, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Satanism, or Blah-blah-blah-ism.

We have “don’t ask, don’t tell” in the army to homosexuality, why not with our teachers as it pertains to religion?

Shodan, you woudn’t just happen to be the teacher in question, would you? :wink:
Peace,
mangeorge

just to clarify:
–yes, we are allowed to wear walkmans in class, but mine is broken.
–I contacted the ACLU, but haven’t gotten word back yet.
many of the posts refered to children: you have to be 18+ to attend this particular school (because it is still an experiment–they don’t want to screw up little kids)
–I finnished all my credits (graduated–woo-hoo!), so I no longer have to worry about this crap anymore, but I still think It’s a valid issue.
–the teacher wasn’t totaly unreceptive to my plea the second time I brought it up, she asked the class if they wanted it off. this being the bible belt, I was out voted (there is only one other non-christian in the class, and she didn’t speak up for fear of being ridiculed–somthing I can understand)

Well, this might very well change some things. Mostly, the 18+ issue may be enough to make the difference. The voting thing, however, will not. One of the main arguments the SC has used in their decisions is the necessity for the minority to have their religious freedoms protected from the majority. Specifically, their reasons are eloquently summed up in what you posted above: “she didn’t speak up for fear of being ridiculed.”

We did it! With the help of a few of my friends, I formed up a petition to stop the playing of any music or speech that contains “religous messages with the purpose of influencing one’s beliefs”. I think the wording serves well, allowing things like “Thank God almighty, We’re free at last!” but excluding things like “Jesus loves me, this I know…”
Can anyone find fault in it? Does it leave some unforseen loophole that might defeat the purpose I’m intending it for?

I hope that your efforts pay off eggo, but I thought you had already graduated? A petition is a good way to stop the behavior, but only if you can get enough people to sign the thing, which may be problematic in the Bible Belt. Good luck!

I know I was outvoted, here, a couple of months ago, but I wonder how you’re going to make your case when the teacher replies “I have no desire to influence anyone’s beliefs. These students are all smart enough to choose their own beliefs and I choose this music simply for my own pleasure.”

You would have been better off trying to ban “music or speech that contains religious messages” and left it at that. (Even there, you’d have better luck if you put a number on it: a classical station might play a Requiem by Mozart or Bach or a few dozen other composers or it might play Handel’s Messiah oratorio once during the day without corrupting you. Your ban should not send the teacher diving for the “off” button just because one of those selections appears. If you specified 25% or 50% religious content, you might have a better chance.)

I agree this is a clear violation of the separation between church and state. Simply broadcasting a prayer over the intercom system is illegal–so is forcing people to listen to religious music.

On the practical side–I would protest any type of music being played during class. While some individuals do not have problems concentrating with distractions like music–many people with ADD cannot handle the distraction. Unfortunately most teachers seem oblivious to this fact and fill the walls up with colorful posters, add in lots of videos, etc. Fine for some students–but others simply can’t learn in a distracting environment. Frankly, I’d go nuts trying to study with music playing unless the materials were extremely compelling.

Good luck in your efforts to get rid of the music.