Hmm, that could take a while if they give him the same deference they gave him for his failure to return the documents he stole. Could go all the way to the SC - can the DOJ or a state be allowed to arrest a former president with Sec Serv service?
I’m actually thinking the DOJ might indict, but I could be sorely disappointed.
This is why I said no: he is an expert in having lawyers delay. I fully believe NY, GA, and the DoJ intend to indict, but I expect a litany of procedural delays followed by “poir Trump is old and sick, you can’t expect him to face trial” followed by Trump’s natural death (which, given age and mental/physical health, I give about five to ten years).
It is an interesting question and I don’t know why I’m punishing myself by wading into this, but things like this are reasons that former office holders should not be criminal charged, or at least not be in danger of incarceration barring the most extreme circumstances. First, whatever the merits, it just looks like banana republic third world shit which is very bad for the country. Of course, I fully concede that Trump bears most of this blame for his “lock her up” shit in the 2016 election. AFAIK, that was the first election where such a charge at one’s opponent was a thing.
Second, it brings into question the issues that you pose. How is a former president going to do prison time? We give him guards if he decides to go to the corner grocery, but for some white collar crime we are going to throw him in gen pop to be raped and murdered? Again, some of you might secretly (or openly) enjoy such a thing, but let’s be reasonable: you don’t want to see that happen to a former president and it will not realistically happen.
Finally, this will escalate quickly. How many local prosecutors, with designs on higher office, and living in a one party politically dominant area, will be tempted after this to start indicting every ex-president from here on out. It is pretty much conceded that with overcriminalization everyone commits a few felonies from time to time, so these individuals would not even be putting their law licenses at risk.
I’d say trying to overthrow the government and leading a large percentage of the population to no longer trust the democratic process is a pretty extreme circumstance. As is the theft of highly-classified documents, or the attempt to strong-arm a state government official into falsifying election results.
I mean, just my opinion.
Yup. If does not go to prison it makes us look like a banana republic.
I have no doubt that the Republicans will now attempt to indict everyone regardless of their guilt. That’s their style. The only way to avoid that is to not vote Republican and have them get absolutely destroyed.
But here’s the thing, indicting political opponents shouldn’t be a thing unless they broke the law. Which Trump did. And look we’re not talking about he cross the street but not at a crosswalk. He broke some pretty serious laws both in and out of office. You say that this will set a precedent of indictments, but are you alright with setting the precedent that politicians being allowed to walk away with intelligence material and (quite likely) selling it to foreign powers without consequence?
And the attempt at overthrowing the government is sort of a problem for me as well.
It would be cool if you could make your arguments without this type of insinuation.
If you think someone enjoys rape or murder, call that person out. I, for one, am curious about which poster you’re referring to here.
There’s negative zero chance he would ever go to an actual prison, although I hope they hold out the possibility if he should violate the terms of his house arrest. Could they decide what house for house arrest? Why should he get to live at a “luxury” golf club, scheming with all the ass lickers who come visiting, and playing golf all day?
Isn’t the whole point of the USA that a former president is just another ordinary citizen?
I just had to call this out. Sure, he didn’t hold up a liquor store or shoot somebody in cold blood, but calling his alleged misdeeds “some white collar crime” is a sad attempt to wave them off as if they were minor tax disputes.
The insurrection he (allegedly) started left several dead, including law enforcement officers, and could have easily resulted in the deaths of lawmakers.
The documents he’s (allegedly) mishandled may contain classified information which, in the wrong hands, could result in US assets being killed and our military strength being compromised.
Not only should he not be exempt from prosecution for these (alleged) crimes, but if found guilty he should be punished with the full severity of anyone else committing similar misdeeds.
To be fair, there have been a couple of posters that have said things like “Trump needs to go the butt sex kind of prison” or something to that effect. Certainly, not very many. Speaking for myself, prison rape (or any rape) is disgusting and shouldn’t be wished on anyone. It certainly should not be an aspect of prison punishment.
Not really. Ordinary citizens don’t get lifetime Secret Service protection.
No one should be subject to rape and murder in prison.
Attempted coup is far worse a crime than most things the other people in prison will have done. Fuck him.
Not a single public cent should be spent to protect him.
I disagree. Presidents being above the law and immune from prosecution is banana republic stuff.
When the former president of France went to jail on corruption charges, I don’t recall anyone saying that was banana republic stuff. It was a statement that no-one, no matter how powerful, is above the law.
This 100%. If he gets away with this shit, the next person will be worse. Imagine that scenario.
Quoted for truth.
Banana republics are countries that have dictators who rule for life and take power via coup. That’s what Trump attempted.
First, NO ONE should be raped or murdered in prison, and I find it telling that you have a problem with white collar criminals like Trump being put into a situation where that might happen, and not so much of a problem with the fact that it happens at all.
Secondly, if you’re not aware —- celebrities and high level politicians frequently serve prison sentences, and prisons make accommodations for that. If they don’t feel that they can keep Trump safe with the general population, they’ll put him in protective custody.
But based on memoirs I’ve read written by celebrities and white collar criminals that served time in federal prisons, Trump will be just fine in a minimum security “camp” style federal prison. I think he’ll be more than fine, I think he’ll be the King of Jail, with the other prisoners vying for the honor of doing his laundry and cleaning his cell. He’ll be a folk hero with a captive audience that will shower him with adulation, and no one will ever say a negative thing about him.
I’ve always been skeptical that Trump will be criminally convicted, but at this point he’s almost asking for it. That’s what makes the situation unique, any other politician would be trying to defuse the situation, by cooperating, by not actively obstructing at every turn. maybe copping a plea for a slap on the wrist. But Trumps actions have been the equivalent of yelling “Nah Nah Nah, I bet you can’t catch me” at the cops while throwing rocks at them. I don’t think Garland particularly wants to indict, but Trump’s not leaving him much choice.
It’s kind of like how Trump could’ve avoided his first impeachment with a one minute speech……….I’m sorry, I’m a businessman and we play by different rules. I got carried away and I would like to extend my deepest apologies to President Zelensky and Joe and Hunter Biden.” A normal politician would’ve done that. But Trump isn’t normal, that’s the problem.
I mean, the guy read classified documents to freaking Bob Woodward and made him promise not to tell anyone. That’s pretty damn incriminating.
I agree with this as a general rule. However, in this situation it will cause more instability. Hillary and Hunter Biden will be next. It will turn into a perpetual thing.
You don’t think that even if the secret service is told to stand down that there won’t be hundreds (thousands?) of Trump supporters with guns outside of Mar-A-Lago ready to fight for him? Bring in tanks and kill 'em all?
The solution to someone like Trump is a comprehensive study of what exactly made him so popular in the first place. Someone has to be the adult and back away from the abyss.
This board is just an example of the country. We will not survive with this polarization. We have to get back to ye olde good old days of 10 years ago where we could debate things without hating each other. Now, if we disagree, why the other person is simply evil. Putting Trump in jail is just risking too much in return for relatively little.
Uh, sure?