Doesn't Most Wondrous Biblical Wisdom Seem Like Common Sense?

Great Debates
1

Growing up, I had it pounded into my head that the Bible contained deep wisdom that no mere human could have written or contemplated. Only the True Son of God could have had such miraculous insight in how to live a good life. And all the questions you might have may be answered within the Bible’s pages, and if you lived by its principles, your life would be good and righteous. Of course, your life might not be good, like if God makes a bar bet with Satan like he did about Job. But anyway, the Bible is the fountain of all Godly Wisdom.

Well, there was a time when I was devout. I believed in God, Jesus, talking snakes, the whole shebang. But you know what else I thought in the back of my mind?

Most of the Bible’s wisdom is pretty damn obvious. At least, in how to live your life. Most of it is just common sense. So where’s the freaking mystical wonder?

Don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t tell lies, act nice, be good to people, be generous, be good to Mom and Dad, don’t brag, let your yes mean yes and your no, no. In general, treat people well regardless of whether you like them or not, and don’t be a jerk.

Even the most famous story of wisdom, Solomon and the two hookers with one kid. Remember that one? Two prostitutes arguing over whose baby was whose?

So Solomon threatens to divide the kid in half and one of the hookers freaks out while the other one shrugs. Who’s the real mom?

Really? That was amazing wisdom? Nobody else could’ve thought to threaten to take the kid away, and see who was the most upset? How dumb are people?

Has anyone here read something in the Bible that changed their life for the better? Or given them a perspective that changed their outlook and improved it?

2

I was just saying the other day, I’m strongly suspicious of people who can’t figure out how to be nice without being reminded weekly.

3

Yeah, with that kind of a setup, you’re bound to be disappointed.

And to some extent I agree with the premise of the thread title, except how do we know that it doesn’t seem like common sense largely because we and our culture are so steeped in the Bible?

Speaking for myself, there are things I know but need to be reminded of every now and then.

4

Then you missed much of the teaching. It gets to the root of these issues. It’s not don’t kill, It’s don’t harbor anger and hatred in one’s heart as that is already murder. Murder is just the inevitable result when one becomes a slave to sin. The sin is entertaining anger which establishes a foothold on one’s heart, which eventually becomes a stronghold. The wisdom is it’s not the act itself which is sinful (but what man uses to judge and convict), but the free will decision as to what emotion to entertain as a result of sensory conditions (which is what God uses). It also goes into different ways to root out those problems to solve the issue. I have had talks on hikes with people who are counselors by trade and they are often amazed of my understanding of these things. They may use different words at times but the concepts are at least as complete at their schooling. I have also helped many with such wisdom.

Yes never bought that one, there is something more to that story. Why it is generally accepted as is is obvious? It was something taught by a person accepted as a authority figure, either just going with it, or if they questioned it, they got shut down and was basically forced to accept it (say to pass a test), and questioned their own ability to understand what the teacher was saying, and then they teach it.

Now it was obviously a inspired wise move to take that tack, but not inhuman levels of wisdom. But perhaps the wisdom is that Solomon was inspired by God to know what would work (as it is possible that this could have failed). To understand that God would hear the cry of the true mother and would not allow the child to be harmed. God would step in - now that is wisdom, knowing that. (It is also my contention that God heard the cry of Issac and that is why God could step in, but it had to come to that point for Issac to cry out, Not that the Bible explicitly says this, but it is in agreement with the biblical principal that God hears the cry of His children and will respond)

I think I just answered that.

5

It does. Some examples:

  • There were fruit trees growing before the sun was created.

  • A betrothed woman raped inside city limits should be stoned to death. She must have wanted it, or she would have yelled louder.

I could go on, but any adult who doesn’t already know this probably doesn’t care. It’s nevertheless true that much of the Sharia Law that Americans alternately fear and mock comes straight from the Bible. It’s now fashionable for liberal Christians to pretend it no longer matters, but that’s not what their Lord and Savior said. He said that anyone who ignores the least of the Mosaic commandments is a douche. I paraphrased slightly.

6

I was always disappointed that the Book of Proverbs isn’t actually composed of what most people would call Proverbs – short, pithy bits of whittled-down wisdom that are easy to remember and very quotable. “Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child” is a now (viewed generally as discredited) proverb. A lot of people think it’s in the Book of Proverbs. It isn’t, although Proverbs 13:24 comes closest.

Instead you get things like this: “The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.”
Probably the best known of the ones in there is: “Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise”

Regarding Solomon’s decision – there’s a wall painting illustrating the story from Pompeii, which wasn’t exactly a hotbed of Jewish citizens or of Christians. Clearly the story has some resonance even outside its cultural milieu

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/godandthemachine/files/2012/10/pompeiherc3.jpg

as for its obviousness, I’ve read a suggestion that the story isn’t meant to be taken at face value, that it was a political allegory and warning to those who would rebel against Solomon not to try to divide the kingdom. Take that with as big a grain of salt as you want.

7

This is a very good point. Almost all of Western culture arises out of biblical tradition. Except for some of the Greco-Roman parts, and how many of us have scratched are heads at what passed for okay amongst the Greeks?

I just hafta add:

I had an epiphany as a parent at the beach the other summer. All those religious traditions requiring headgear? The ***moms ***got together and leaned on the priests to make it obligatory for the kids to wear hats.

“Do you want to get heatstroke? For the last time, wear a hat!”

8

Not always common sense, no.

Did the story of the prodigal son really strike you as common sense? Didn’t you ever think that maybe the dutiful son had a point? He stayed, did what he was supposed to do, while his brother took his share of the inheritance and lost it all on Biblical versions of hookers and blow, and then returns to get everything handed to him. Did that story really make you nod vigorously and say, “Yep, that’s fair and right?”

Of course, the message of the story is God’s infinite love and willingness to embrace us when we return – and perhaps how we should emulate it – but I dare say that’s not a common-sense reaction. It’s an aspirational one: avoid your “common sense,” and emulate God’s love.

9

Not to mention that gawd made the sun move backwards in the sky and NONE of the other civilizations on Earth at the time noticed it. And there were a lot of civilizations who know about astronomy at that time.

10

The parable of the Good Samaritan is a rather obvious example of one Biblical lesson that people have struggled with throughout all of human history.

11

Kind of easy to do when you already own everything and nothing can bring you harm, but not so easy when you have a personal stake in the matter.

12

That non-christians are good people?

In answer to the OP, yes. People cherry-pick from the bible all the time and have done since time-immemorial. They disregard the bits they don’t like, use theological circular reasoning or other mental gymnastics to justify other bits and force them into something they can agree with.
How do they do this? On what basis do they make the choice of what to keep and what to discard? Easy, the same basis as this humble atheist does. The same basis that non-christian civilisations throughout history have done, the same basis that gave proto-human society the ability to organise workable societies, the same basis that ensured we evolved to the point of being able have this conversation.
There is nothing remarkably moral about the bible, it is collected common sense, a dash of bloodthirsty genocide, authentic bronze age gibberish, wildly inaccurate “history” and liberal amounts of nonsense. The only bits to still be seriously trumpeted as great teachings come from the “collected common sense” part and we shouldn’t be surprised by that.

13

I suppose I would miss that wisdom, because it’s not wise. It’s nonsense. Thought crime is not actual crime. Everyone hates. Everyone lusts. Everyone feels things, and while we can suppress those feelings, and not act on them, we can’t not feel them. I hate my ex-boyfriend who ran off with my ex-girlfriend. Does it make any difference whether or not I act on that hatred?

(This is not a hard question. The bible gets it wrong.)

14

If you cherry-pick the stories you like, the Bible is wise. If you do the same with stories that you despise, it’s a ridiculous collection of nonsense, inhumanity, and bigotry. On average, I’d say…meh. Civilization can do better.

15

God didn’t even inspire this decision. The point of the story was that Solomon was a real wise guy. Kind of like the George Washington myths.

Definitely. Within a Bible I read about the various authors of the Bible (J, etc.) which opened my eyes to the human origin of the whole thing and started me on the road to atheism. Improved my life quite a lot, actually.

16

I’m glad you were able to use the Bible so well then. Honestly, I mean it.

Actually the whole concept of harboring anger and envy and lust being tantamount to committing heinous acts was also a part of my upbringing. Along with concepts of doing good for the love of righteousness, and not for praise from others or the hope of a reward.

Not that I regret this. I think my strong morality is a good facet of my being. But still, it’s nothing that any thoughtful human couldn’t come up with on their own without divine guidance.

Also, it’s interesting that there is a disconnect between the way humans are expected to behave under Christian philosophy, and the portrayal of God Himself in the Bible. God has plenty of grudges that he can’t let go of, against Ham and Canaan and all of those folks, and you could argue, against mankind itself for the whole forbidden fruit thing. The sins of the father to the seventh generation and so on.

Geez, lighten up Yahweh.

17

That could be inspirational - but it looks more like marketing to me.

18

Maybe in western culture, but those who claim all wisdom comes from the Bible need to explain how the cultures of India, China and Japan got along just fine in not randomly murdering each other without it.

And some of them managed without the craziness about sex parts too.

19

I don’t know much about Japanese culture, but China* and India had plenty of craziness about sex and gender too. In some regards (banning remarriage for widows for example), Hinduism went even more over-the-top than orthodox Christianity and orthodox Islam did.

There are cultures which had a fairly lax sexual morality, but India and China for the most part weren’t it.

*unless you mean small Chinese or Indian tribal groups, like the Mosue that the “Sex at Dawn” authors are so fond of, but those aren’t really normative “Chinese” or “Indian” culture.

Your general point is right though: religious teachings have some affect on secondarily moral principles, but the big stuff like “Thou shalt not kill” is not really affected by religion one way or the other. Murder would still be wrong even if God hadn’t said anything about the matter.

20

Grandmothers, too. :smiley:

*A grandmother takes her three-year-old grandson to the beach. She’s watching him play in the sand at the water’s edge when a huge wave suddenly washes up over the beach. When the water recedes, the little boy is gone. The grandmother stands up, shakes her fist at the sky, and yells, “How could you take him? He was so young! He had so much promise! He was so innocent! How could you take him?”

With that, another huge wave washes up onto the beach. When the water recedes, there’s the little boy playing in the sand, completely dry and untouched. The grandmother looks back up at the sky and yells, “He was wearing a hat!"*