I have a mixed Border Collie/Australian Shepherd that loves to catch frisbees. I’ve had him since he was a pup, and taken him thru basic obedience school. He’s never seen a sheep/goat/cow in his life, and I’ve never trained him in any hearding skills.
Now, when we play frisbee catch, he likes to run in a wide circle around me, or around the grounded frisbee when I’m close by. I believe this is a hearding instinct - a good heard dog would naturally run circles around a group of sheep/goats/whatever to keep them in order.
How in the world does this kind of specific behavior get bred into a dog? We’re not talking about millions of years of evolutionary selection here, this behavior would only be of use to a human that needed help keeping a flock together. I can see how natural survival skills could be accentuated by breeding - things like hunting behavior, tracking, running speed, obidience or intelligence. These things seem like useful things for a wild dog (or pack of dogs) to have to surive. But running in circles around someone? How does that become an instinct?
First a general interest question. WHat do you call an Australian Shepherd, I assume it’s a Kelpie?
As for breeding this behaviour into a dog, your looking at the question from the wrong perspective. Virtually all, if not all, inbred dog behaviour is actually the result of breeding natural behaviour out of wolves, effectively cutting out bits of normal behaviur that aren’t wanted. All wolves have an inbred hunting mechanism, and when in packs it’s not uncommon for one or more scout dogs to move around the outside of a herd of animals to either push them into other hunters, or simply to force them to move so that the weaker and injured animals are exposed. Over the centuries trainers have bred out of the dog the desire to follow this up with the next logical move- running in and ripping an animal’s throat out. So when your dog engages in hunting behaviour it runs around to the outside of the prey as moves, attempting to shepherd it into the rest of the pack. Doesn’t work so well with frisbees.
Of course this doesn’t always control a dog, and Kelpies, having more than a smattering of Dingo in them, (yeah I know most breeders try to deny or downplay it) are notorious fo having to be kept chained up when not working for fear of their killing sheep.
Circling is good for hunting! It will turn the prey so the rest of the pack can close in. That would be an easy step to herding - just get rid of the ripping and tearing.
(And BTW, an acquaintance of mine grew up with a Samoyed who invented herding by himself. She’d get a call from the dairy farmer next door to call off her dog so his cows could come home. She would go over and find all the cows jammed in one corner of the field, with the dog looking proud as can be and heading off any cow that tried making a break for it.)
Actually, Australian Shepherds are an American breed and are not related to the kelpie. They look similar to the border collie (IMO), except for their coloring.
Is the dog actually running?
If so it is probably just playing.
I’ve seen specials on Discovery(i think) about sheep hearding dogs. They move quickly to head off sheep but don’t seem to run. Probably because it would spook the sheep.
We had a Sheltie when we first got married and I noticed it’s hearding instincts.It would heard anything. And we never had any animals except for a few chickens.
I would like to have seen what he would have done with cattle. He has been gone for several years now.
Our Austrailian Shepard cross herds the children! She wants them all together, where she can see them. She will circle them and nip at their heels to move them. She has never seen a herd of anything else, so it isn’t a learned behavior. I’ve had her since she was 8weeks old.