Good grief. I heard that somewhere else but almost didn’t dare to believe it. What the hell was she thinking? Got a link?
From Cartooniverse’s link. Cripes. This is unbelievable. I like dogs (though I vastly prefer cats), but I’m glad those dogs are destroyed. I don’t think that they were salvagable. As for their “owners”, well, they got what was coming to them. More than 30 warnings or incidents? Hello, cluemobile…
On top of which, this link mentions:
Schneider, BTW is the adpoted son who is also a member of the Aryan Brotherhood and serving life without parole.
That article also mentions the possibility that the two “engaged in ‘inappropriate sexual conduct’ with the animals” and that “Documents found in Schneider’s cell, including letters and nude photographs of Knoller, provided evidence of sexual activity between the couple and Bane.”
So we have dogs with a violent history, turned away by one person for being too viscious and the possibility of sexual mistreatment of the animals.
No sympathy for these people whatsoever. By all reports, those dogs should have, at the very least, been muzzled. I’d go as far to say as those dogs didn’t belong in an apartment building to begin with.
I certainly agree with the verdicts against each defendant on the various manslaughter counts. These animals were dangerous, the defendants knew it and should have known it, and the precautions they took were inadequate. There certainly was enough evidence for that. The husband will have up to four years in the cooler to think about it (I think he used to be a prison guard).
I didn’t follow it closely, so I don’t know all the evidence, and ultimately, I’ll have to trust the jury that did on this one, but it struck me as something of a throwing red meat to an angry public, again, I may not have all the evidence.
It is not the equivilent of waving a loading gun in a full room. The woman was walking her dogs. She did not sic the dogs on the victim, the dogs were defending their territory, doing what dogs do. There is no indication that the defendant had any animous toward the woman that might lead to a murder conviction, such as waiving a gun the face of someone you were fighting with.
The defendants were particularly unsympathetic, and in fact rather loathsome people. Possibly engaged in a conspiracy to breed attack dogs to protect drug labs or some such. They said stupid, narcisstic things blame the victim things at the worst times and places, trying to escape public blame for their actions, rather like immature brats.
But murder rather than manslaughter? Spending the next quarter century in a cell? Again, I’d like to have a full summary of the evidence supporting that this was a full fledged murder.
The worst thing that we can do as a community of people is decide that people who lack the good manners to shut up after their dog has mauled someone to death and say things that amount to being really insensitive and blame avoidant have to spend 21 more years in prison for what amounts to flapping their damn lips too much. 4 years is a long, long time. 25 years is a life sentence. This long sentence is going to cost us about a million dollars to carry out, money that is far better spent on just about anything else. Frankly, I don’t think our disapproval of this woman’s shockingly poor judgment and insensitivity and our own feelings of we’re-not-so-stupid-as-that (we aren’t) justify this expenditure and this precedent of qunitupling the sentences of rude people sets.
Just one California citizen’s opinion. I think manslaughter would have been sufficient. But I’m one of those people who thought spending 70 million on Bill’s intern quest was idiocy too.
No dog over about 15 lbs (and probably less than that) belongs in an apartment.
Dogs that size require a lot of room to move about in. Hell, my folks live in a four-bedroom house with two Shepherd mixes, and they decided the dogs needed not only the run of the house but of the yard, too. They’ve spent about $4,000 building fences & so forth so that was possible. (Their female is quite a jumper.)
Both their dogs were abused. Both have “dog” issues, but I’ve never seen either be vicious with a human (well, okay. Nana snaps at my mother, but then Mom pulls her tail. Fair’s fair.)
Both my parents have said that if either dog gets out of control - with another dog or a human that’s it for the dog. But they also don’t let the dogs interact without supervision, and neither dog is allowed off their leash when outside the house. Ever.
These are dogs that are spoiled rotten. Loved like children.
I think these two assholes got exactly what was coming to them. Particularly since some of their bullshit boiled down to “it was the dog’s fault.”
Remember - there are no bad dogs. Only bad owners.:mad:
The real lesson in this trial, IMHO, is you can’t:
[ul][li]Raise attack dogs illegally for incarcerated prisoners,[/li][li]Upon your arrest after the dogs kill someone, claim that you’re not the owners,[/li]&Claim you didn’t know they’re attack dogs.[/ul]
I can’t agree with this completely. We had friends who wanted to show their German Shepherd. He was a beautiful dog, but he turned out to be vicious. When the owner went to feed him one day, the dog attacked him. That was a bad dog. He was put down.
Shortly thereafter, they got another shepherd who was a big, loving baby. Never had a bit of trouble with him. I mention this to illustrate that it wasn’t the owners - it was the dog who was antisocial.
I do believe this is the exception to the rule, but some dogs are just plain bad.
Some dogs are just plain bad, just like some people, no matter how loving and untraumatic their childhood and how decent the neighborhood they live in, wind up in jail for murder.
However, one should not underestimate the impact of the owner on the dog. Would-be owners should pay close attention to the temperament and possible special needs of the breed they are considering. Large dogs do not fare too well in apartment buildings; dogs which have been traditionally bred as guard dogs, such as Preso Canarios (originally cattle herders and guardias in the Canary Islands), must be trained decisively and firmly (though not aggressively).
There are far too many cases of people buying a dog because they admire the fierceness of its looks or nature. A dog, unlike a sports car, is not just a phallic substitute. It does have a mind of its own, and a badly-trained, maladjusted dog in weak hands is a potential deadly weapon.
And now we’ll all get to see whether Murder 2 will stick through the appellate process.
If justice were indeed blind, manslaughter might have been the more appropriate charge. However, by being such grade A assholes prior to the trial, they hanged themselves. The jurors apparently kept playing the tape of an interview where Knoller said, “Why didn’t she run? That’s what I would have done.” And they were so struck on how cold and unsympathetic she was. I mean, her dog had just killed a woman and she couldn’t muster up a sniffle?
I’m glad they got the book thrown at them. Too bad a chair wasn’t available.
Isn’t that called “callous indifference?”
Slacker, if you go to Yahoo! News and under “Most Popular Slideshows” it’s one of the pics in the “Dog Mauling Death Case” (IIRC pic # 69 of 78). One of the jurors interviewed said that she didn’t help her client’s case very much.
Another dog lover checking in.
I completely agree with the saying “There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.”
friendly suggestion here - never, **never, NEVER ** say this to a lawyer (minty is one)
I’m behind the convictions. My neighbor has two large, agressive rotts and this is exactly the kind of thing that scares me. Maybe this will make all those other owners of “problem dogs” out there take notice. Responsibility for a pet ultimately lies with the owner, and this should have never happened.
I heard the lover’s lawyer is filing in civil court against the Apartment’s landlord for allowing the dogs to remain on premisis even after knowing of previous problems. The more I think on that, it seems fair. One of a landlord’s duties is to guarantee that there are no vicious, man-hating animals freely roaming about the complex.
bella
Yeah, Knoller and Noel themselves. 
BTW: I think the proper classification for these two is “sociopath” not “psychopath”.
I’ve been bitten twice by dogs. If the second bite had been just half an inch higher, I would’ve lost my eye- my good eye; I would’ve been basically blind.
I still love dogs, though.
My boys (wonderdogs Flash and Two-Tone) are extremely well-behaved. They’d better be- I trained them. If they weren’t good dogs, it would be my fault.
That conviction was right on the money- I agree with it 100%. It’s the owner’s fault- basically, someone was waving a gun around with the safety off. If it goes off, do you blame the victim for catching the bullets!?!
I’d say it depends on the dog and the owner(s). Our neighbors own a year old border collie and live in a two bedroom condo. She’s taken for walks at least four times a day, either by one of her owners or one of their friends. Sometimes the walk is short (out to the complex’s dog run and back), sometimes they go all the way to the nearest dog park (about a 15 minute walk there and back).
Jeff Olsen beat me to it but I agree with him completely. It is not the size of the dog but the breed that determines their requirements. Some large breeds do just fine in smaller homes/condos/apartments.
I have a Shiloh Shepherd (think German Shepherd and you have 90% of the idea) and live in a two bedroom condo. She does just fine there. When we got her as a pup my wife and I spent a great deal of time and effort in socializing the dog with both other dogs and other humans. As in Jeff’s example we walk her four times a day with a dog walker doing the walking for us in the afternoon. We also make certain to get her to the park for socialization and play time at least several times a week.
Frankly, we find the dogs who were raised in the suburbs (we live in Chicago) to be more of a problem than dogs who were raised in the city (per force the city raised dogs had much more exposure to other people and animals and generally seem calmer around them). Our dog is now a 90 pound sweetheart and has never been aggressive to anything (truly…I’ve never seen it). That said we always keep her on a leash when walking and shorten the leash when people walk by. We know she won’t attack passersby but we realize not everyone is comfortable with a 90 pound dog approaching them.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentence passed on the two in the OP (although Murder II does seem a stretch in my mind but I’m not crying for her). With not too much effort a dog can be a great companion and safe to others. With a fair amount of training dogs can be downright magnificent animals and pets. There is no need or place for vicious dogs (excepting wild wolves and the like). NOTE: I do not automatically buy the ‘vicious breed’ bit. I’ve known many ‘vicious’ breed dogs that were wonderful including a HUGE and very friendly Rottweiler that was afraid of bubbles and balloons (it was hilarious to see this brute of a dog taken aback by soap bubbles).
[sub]FTR: Owning a large breed dog does not necessarily equate to a phallic replacement. In my case I grew up with German Shepherds. My family had two before I was even born and we had at least one around till I was well into college. In my case my choice of a German Shepherd Dog (GSD) stems from a love of the breed. Shepherds get a bad rap but mostly due to bad owners. IMO a well trained GSD is an unbeleivable piece of work that is a wonder to behold.[/sub]
In this particular case, that’s a poor choice of words.
There was once a case in my area where a pitbull was mauling a child, so a by-standing shot and blinded the dog. Then the owner tried to sue the guy for damages.
You are responsible for your dog’s actions. The police officer responding to the case shot the dog dead at the scene. I’ve never heard of that being done before.