Dog Rescue questions

[Edward_The_Head]

We have a pure bred Bedlington Terrier that is in need of a new home. We do not feel that she will work out with our new baby as she is very needy.

Our first option was to call the Bedlington rescue. At first they were hapy to hear from us as they do not get many dogs come there way, and amazingly enough they actually knew of someone in our area that wanted one and fit what we thought would be good for the dog.

Later on they called us back and said that they would actually be taking her and back to the original breeder. This was after they found out that the father was best in breed at Westminster. This sounded strange to us, why would they say they knew someone, then turn around and say no they would give her back to the breeder.

So, is this normal for rescues to give the dog back to the breeder? And if so do they get resold? There are not a whole lot of Bedlingtons around and we thought maybe they would sell her twice.

Second they wanted us to sign a contract saying we would relinquish rights to the dog. How enforcable is something like that? We want the dog to go to a good home and not get bounced around a number of times. If we had signed when they said they would give her to a good home, then when they came and got her could they say, no we’re actually going to give her to a breeder, could we say no you can’t have the dog?

Lastly are there any good places we can take the dog in the DC area? We would like at least some say in what happens to her, or at least know that she’s not going to be sold for a lot of money.

[BlueKangaroo]

Edward, your post is a little confusing, but let me see if I can answer some of the questions, and ask a couple of my own.

First, it’s very normal for an ethical breeder to want a dog to be returned to them if the original home doesn’t work out for whatever reason. It’s not about making more money, but about being responsible for the animals one has deliberately brought into this world. An ethical breeder wants her puppies to find good homes everytime around just as much as you want to make sure your dog gets a good new home. In fact, many breeders have such a stipulation in their puppy contracts. If you signed a contract when you purchased your puppy, you may want to go back and see if you are contractually bound to return your puppy to the breeder. Depending on the contract, your breeder may owe you a full or partial refund as well (though I’d imagine not in this senario).

Presuming you are not bound to return the puppy to the breeder, think about what your objections to returning her are. Are you truly concerned the breeder is just out to make a buck? If so, it makes sense that you want to run far, far away. But before you make this judgement, make sure you’ve considered all the evidence. There’s no money to be made in breeding dogs, IF you are ethical. It’s a big “if”, but true.

Is your dog fixed? If not, is she possibly “show quality”? Sometimes breeders misjudge the dogs at placement time, and it may be that there’s a show home for your girl. This is rare, but worth considering. There may not be money in breeding, but I won’t lie and tell you there’s not politics and prestige. That said, would you object to her going to a show home? If so, why? This may also be part of the rights reliquishment request. If it turns out you have a beautiful girl who will produce many champions, they don’t want to see you in court claiming that they cheated you into returning the dog. This last bit is a guess, but I know people have at least threatened legal action about show dogs in the past. As I said, maybe not money, but prestige.

Finally, be aware that the home they had lined up for your girl might have fallen through for one reason or another, and they may simply be trying to help get this dog out of your home. Because of the pregnancy, you have a fairly hard and fast deadline (or so you’ve made it sound), and sometimes older dogs are hard to place. Everyone wants a puppy, and so few people consider the good things about an adult. The breeder should have the capacity to keep another dog, temporarily, and probably has that capacity better than you will as time goes on. Or so the rescue organization might think.

Oh, another thing. Is this the rescue organization arm of the national club? If not, all of this goes out the window, because there are a lot of unethical people out there, and BoB at Westminster is something to capitalize on.

There are a lot of other breeders/dog fans on this board, so I’m sure you’ll get a lot of advice. You are also welcome to e-mail me, if you’d like. I don’t know how much more advice I can give, but I’m willing to answer any questions I can.

[Edward_The_Head]

@BlueKangaroo

First, it’s very normal for an ethical breeder to want a dog to be returned to them if the original home doesn’t work out for whatever reason. It’s not about making more money, but about being responsible for the animals one has deliberately brought into this world. An ethical breeder wants her puppies to find good homes everytime around just as much as you want to make sure your dog gets a good new home. In fact, many breeders have such a stipulation in their puppy contracts. If you signed a contract when you purchased your puppy, you may want to go back and see if you are contractually bound to return your puppy to the breeder. Depending on the contract, your breeder may owe you a full or partial refund as well (though I’d imagine not in this senario).

I couldn’t tell you what the original contract said, and as far as I know Iris did not get the dog from the original breeder. I think it went something like this, Dog is born, gets raised for a few months. Someone Iris knows bought the dog for showing. The dog at that time did not do well and did not get along with the other dogs. Iris then got the dog, but not from the original breeder. Iris has had the dog for around three years now. We’ve had other problems with her, most of which we could handle.

Iris’ parents have had the dog for a couple of weeks now, so in the mean time we’ve been trying to find a place for her. Yesterday we called and they said, well we don’t get many dogs coming in, and the woman we talked to said even though she runs the place she’s never had one come in. So Iris and the woman talked for about 30 minutes. Later that same day the woman calls back and says, well we would come and take the dog back to the orginal breeder.

Presuming you are not bound to return the puppy to the breeder, think about what your objections to returning her are. Are you truly concerned the breeder is just out to make a buck? If so, it makes sense that you want to run far, far away. But before you make this judgement, make sure you’ve considered all the evidence. There’s no money to be made in breeding dogs, IF you are ethical. It’s a big “if”, but true.

Yes, they way they acted in the begining and then later on make me wonder if they are out to make a quick buck. Plus we would not be the ones taking the dog to the breeder, it would be us signing the papers to the rescue who would then take the dog, so they said, back to the breeder.

Is your dog fixed? If not, is she possibly “show quality”? Sometimes breeders misjudge the dogs at placement time, and it may be that there’s a show home for your girl. This is rare, but worth considering. There may not be money in breeding, but I won’t lie and tell you there’s not politics and prestige. That said, would you object to her going to a show home? If so, why? This may also be part of the rights reliquishment request. If it turns out you have a beautiful girl who will produce many champions, they don’t want to see you in court claiming that they cheated you into returning the dog. This last bit is a guess, but I know people have at least threatened legal action about show dogs in the past. As I said, maybe not money, but prestige.

I wouldn’t object to her being a show dog if she is. We’ve only kept her as a pet. The only reason we are thinking about getting rid of her is because she is very needy, always has to have attention and such, plus she has speration anxity. She is fixed so no chance of her making show dogs.

Finally, be aware that the home they had lined up for your girl might have fallen through for one reason or another, and they may simply be trying to help get this dog out of your home. Because of the pregnancy, you have a fairly hard and fast deadline (or so you’ve made it sound), and sometimes older dogs are hard to place. Everyone wants a puppy, and so few people consider the good things about an adult. The breeder should have the capacity to keep another dog, temporarily, and probably has that capacity better than you will as time goes on. Or so the rescue organization might think.

This is possible, but they actually said that the woman had called that morning and fit the type of person we thought would be good for her.* Then within a couple of hours after finding out who her father was they called back and said no she’d be going to the breeder.

Oh, another thing. Is this the rescue organization arm of the national club? If not, all of this goes out the window, because there are a lot of unethical people out there, and BoB at Westminster is something to capitalize on.

I’m pretty sure that the phone number we got was from the national club.

*We feel the dog needs someone at home most of the time. Since we both work she spends a good amount of time by herself. She also gets very jealous of Iris and we don’t know what she would do to the baby, she’s been known to nip at me a few times. We tired a number of different options before this. She’s been to class, I play with her all the time, we’ve even gone to drugs a couple of months ago. None of that worked. If Iris ever went away for a couple of days she wouldn’t eat. We only want what’s best for the dog, and while I understand and support paying some fee for the care of the dog, I don’t think it’s fair that the breeder got $1500+ originally for the dog, then for her to go back and get more money for the same dog. It all seems very strange on how the rescue people have acted.

[BlueKangaroo]

Well, I’m not sure what to say at this point. I’ve done some rescue, and lived with my mom who did a great deal of rescue, and it’s usually been (for us) getting a dog out of a shelter and into a foster home, and less of your situation.

That said, the rescue organization may be all of one woman and/or very disorganized, particularly if the breed is a rare one. So what seems odd may simply be that disorganization. Still, if you don’t feel comfortable with dealing with them then don’t. I understand that you want what’s best for the dog, and so there’s no reason to deal with people you think are sketchy.

Does Iris still know the original owner? Perhaps that person can shed some light on the situation. They can tell you if the breeder is sketchy, if the person running the rescue organization is sketchy and many other things, particularly if they’re a member of the show “group”. Note that they can tell you, not that they necessarily will, and note that sometimes there’s that pesky politics, and there may be nothing more than rumor out there to hear.

Since the dog is fixed, she won’t go to a conformation home, though they may still want to place her with a home that will put other titles on her (obediance, agility, etc). It’s also entirely possible that the rescue org is someone involved with the stud OR the bitch, and wants to be sure that the dog does get some of these titles, so that the prestige of the stud or bitch is enhanced. Who knows, maybe the rescue woman was the original breeder, and it wasn’t the coincidence of the stud, but that once she had a pedigree in her hand, she realized this was one of her puppies?

The money may sound extreme to you, and I don’t disagree that $1500 is a lot of money, but it’s still unlikely to be about making a buck. If the stud was as impressive 3 years ago as he is now (BoB in Westminster, or at the Nationals or similar), that may have just covered the stud fees. Or some of the vet bills for the puppies and bitch.

You may think I sound like I’m excusing the rescue org too much. This isn’t my intention, but I am trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability. In the end, you should avoid dealing with them if they sketch you out. I know I’ve avoided more than one person on a gut feeling, so I’m not going to criticize you for doing the same.

As a thought, you might consider also going to the breeder directly, and speaking with them. They may not even have a clue that their puppy was placed (though that would really surprise me, particularly in a rare breed), and may have some recomendations for you. They may also have a waiting list a year long for pets rather than show dogs; I’ve not seen this in my breed, but I’ve heard of it in others. In that instance, they might be able to recommend someone off the top of their head that would be a perfect match.

If Iris is still aquainted with the original owner, she may want to run the above by that person first, particularly if they’re friends. If the original owner was contractually obliged to return the puppy, and instead placed it with Iris, this could be problematic. I think that’s very doubtful, particularly in a rare breed, because it’s amazingly unlikely the breeder would not know the dog had been placed. My breed is a fairly popular one, for example, and most breeders would still know if one of their animals had been placed in a new home, particularly if it was because the animal was thought to be show quality and proved otherwise.