Dog-training question (breed-specific)

Factual Questions
1

Back in February, Mrs. Savior and I went to a local shelter and bought a very nice little Springer Spaniel / Border Collie mix. He’s cute, loves us, and very non-aggressive. However, I think he got the brains from the Border side, as he is very [ol]
[li]“Come”, when in a field situation (think long grass, geese to chase, etc.)[/li][li]“Sit”, only when confronted with a person coming to the door. I’ve tried about 1,000 ways of training this, and none seem to work.[/li][li]“Down”, but only when it deals with people. He’ll get off the counters, the table, etc…but when he sees people, he turns into a raving, slobbering lunatic and jumps up. I’ve tried a few methods on this one, but again, none work.[/li][/ol]

Please keep in mind that I’m fairly dedicated to making this little guy a “Good Canine Citizen”, so that we can take him to senior homes, playgrounds, etc. I took the trainer’s mantra “be more stubborn than he is” to heart. I train with him every other day.

Do smart dogs, and dogs with specific breed purposes (flushing birds, etc.) make for difficult training over time? Is there a point at which the “lights come on”, and he listens and acts accordingly?

-Cem

2

Very smart, by the way…the post didn’t take for some reason. Also, I was listing the commands with which I’m having troubles.

3

For whatever reason the “come” command seems to be a tough thing to teach an older dog. Perhaps because they’ve figured out that’s there’s really nothing you can do if they don’t.

Anyway as a Border Collie owner myself I can give you tips that might work.

For the “Come” command:

The worst thing you can do with the come command is get frustrated. Remember, if you punish the dog when it comes, no matter how long you’ve been calling/chasing/cajoled it, he will only understand the simple equation of: coming to you = punishment. Consistent praise is really important.

Try using a long leash. First in the back yard, then in the field. After they come on the leash, move to off leash in the back yard, and the off leash in a secure field. This can take a really long time. Think in terms of months or years. If your dog has a strong prey drive, this may never really be safe.

I’m not sure what you want to do with the “sit” command, but I think you want your dog to sit when folks are at the front door.

Use the sit command often. So often that it becomes second nature to sit when told to do so. Don’t give him treats until he sits. Make him sit before he does anything he loves. He wants to go for a walk? Sit to put on his collar. He wants to go out and relieve himself? Make him sit before he can leave the house. This is a good control policy anyway.

Jumping on people. There are a couple of things about this. First; I never use “down”; it’s too fuzzy. “Down” off the couch, “down” off people, lay “down”, sit “down”. It’s confusing. I use “off” for people, “floor” for couch, “sit”, and “lay”.

Make sure that you always tell people that it’s not acceptable for them to react to positively to your dog when he jumps on them. Let them know it’s not acceptable, despite the “oh I don’t mind” that you will get. Actually this tends to be one of the quicker behaviors to correct, mostly because it’s predictable, and visual. Have him in a sit prior to opening the door.

Your dog will do a slight squat prior to jumping. At this point say “no”, and push him down by the collar. If he does jump, a sharp, “off!” and a push to the floor by the collar should be corrective. When he doesn’t jump, praise, but when he jumps he should get no positive reinforcement.

Good luck

4

No, ‘smart’ dogs (herding, hunting, & working breeds, roughly) are generally easier & quick to train.

But there is a problem that is more common on ‘smart’ dogs – you need to be very consistent in your training. ‘Dumber’ dogs get the general idea, and may not notice inconsistancy on your part. But a ‘smarter’ dog will notice it, and be confused about what you want it to do. Leading to the old saying “First, make sure the trainer is smarter than the dog!”

Any dumb dog can be trained to stay off the couch. A smarter dog can be trained to stay off the couch, when the owner is in the room. That may be the best you can achieve with a smart dog.

But it is difficult to train a dog against their natural instincts. And somewhat senseless. If you take a hunting breed out into an open field with geese, etc., their hunting instincts will come out, and they will start to flush or point out the prey. That’s what they are bred to do. If you don’t want them to do that, maybe you ought not bring them to such a field, OK?

But you can train them to respond to you, and to stay near you in the field. When you first arrive, make them sit until you give them the command to hunt. Periodically call them back, praise them, and make them sit for a minute before hunting again. And make sure that (especially at first) you don’t leave until they have had a thoroughly satisifying (and tiring) hunting session. Otherwise it’s just a tease to them, and an incomprehensible violation of their inbred instincts. But with some effort, hunting dogs can be trained to behave just as well in the field as they do at home.

5

Great response, t-bon. I’m going to try the advice on the “hunt” command.

The thing is, I don’t want to make the dog into an atuomaton, and I want him to enjoy the fields of geese I bring him to on Sunday mornings. I’m not really in a frustrated place right now, just looking for some advice that will give me that intelligence edge I’m obviously lacking! And trust me…I wear that dog OUT when we go to the goose-area. We like to chase them off once, and then go play in another area until they return. Then…we get 'em again!

Thanks much!

6

you need to teach the dog that listening to you provides a greater reward than not listening. the problems you list involve stopping him from behaviors that are self-rewarding and fun for him. so you need to teach him that a greater reward is in store if he responds to your request to stop doing a fun thing.

it’s a very general concept, so you can figure out what works best for your dog’s personality. for my dog, a tennis ball is the ultimate reward.

dogs like having a “job” to do in a somewhat structured environment. they enjoy knowing that a certain behavior is desirable and will result in positive attention.

7

You don’t mention how old the dog is. Not that it’s actually harder to train an old dog; only that sometimes there are bad habits that need to be untrained before good habits can take their place.

General advice: you MUST be 100% consistent. Related to this is that you must think of training as a CONSTANT activity, not just every other day. You should be in training mode whenever you interact with the dog, 24 hours a day. Training is a language that you and your dog have in common, and every interaction is an opportunity to increase and clarify the vocabulary.

Second, try to think like a dog. Think, “If I sit here until he says COME 9 times, then I finally go to him, and he hollers at me, what am I learning?” First, you might be learning that the command is not “come,” but “come come come come come come come come come.” And for some reason, I can’t really tell what he wants me to do, because sometimes when I come to him I get praised, and sometimes he seems kinda pissed at me." Not that this is exactly what is happening with your specific situation, just an illustration of the kind of thinking that helps you understand how to communicate with your dog.

When I was a dog trainer, my favorite book was Mother Knows Best . I still always give a copy to any friend who’s getting a new dog. I can’t recommend it enough.