It will be for the military to deal with their status in service. I doubt the military is done with them.
Dishonorable discharge, and no benefits.
A felony conviction would also help keep these chuckle heads away from weapons. But there are so many guns about, it would be Black Market or like minded traitors.
I did not realize my state was in the minority, but see it is:
True but what about primaries? I understand that in at least one state (Ohio), the primary is a partisan election, and the winners of the primaries then move on to technically non-partisan elections.
Is Wisconsin a state where partisan affiliation is part of the electoral process? The recent election to fill a vacancy on the Wisconsin Supreme Court was partisan, in the sense that everyone knew the partisan affiliation of the candidates, but I don’t know if their affiliation was on the ballot?
Even if the election is officially non-partisan, don’t the local party machines end up supporting candidates?
Not « just asking questions ». I am genuinely curious how it works.
I think it depends. In bright blue Maryland, I haven’t seen any partisan advocacy one way or another for judges. The closest I’ve seen is the incumbent judges uniting as a block to support their own incumbency. There might be some fringe candidate judges on the far right that could garner Repblican support but if so they weren’t high enough profile for me to have seen it.
Moderating:
It’s time for the discussion about whether judges are elected or appointed and whether on a partisan basis or otherwise to cease. If someone wants to discuss it further and starts a thread, I’ll split off the posts addressing this issue. But let’s stop the hijack in this thread now.
Apologies. Got carried away.
From the thread Jan 7 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of storming the Capitol, to keep from hijacking that thread.
I don’t really believe the first sentence and am only in partial agreement with the second.
From what I can determine by lurking Right Wing Message Boards, they really aren’t confused why Hillary (or Al Gore, or Stacey Abrams) haven’t been arrested. It’s just a talking point to allow them to argue that Trump’s prosecution is unjustified.
Before the indictment, these RWNJs were all asking “What laws did he violate?” in response to news reports of the ongoing investigation. Afterwards, they bring out the Hillary (Al, Stacey) talking point to make it an issue that while Trump’s crime is simply questioning the election, these people all questioned their elections without persecution. They try to say that his prosecution is a violation of the 1st Amendment. Of course, if they would revisit “What laws did he violate?”, they would have to see what laws Trump is being accused of and that none of that applies to Hillary (Al, Stacey) and that Trump’s 1st Amendment rights are not being violated.
It is frustrating. The vast majority of them have either not read Smith’s Election Interference indictment, or have just skimmed it muttering “this is all bullshit” before closing the file. They have their “sources” who tell them they have read it (who probably haven’t, either) and that it’s all a politically driven witch hunt with no facts behind it (other than fake facts). Having heard what they want to hear, they look no further. Their minds are closed. It is extremely difficult to deal with people with closed minds.
You seem to be arguing that the MAGAts are not confused, they are merely propagating bullshit lies. While I will grant this is true for a minority of the lie spewing MAGAts at the top (media, politicians), I think it’s more likely that the majority of the MAGAts at the bottom of the fetid pile actually believe the lying bullshit being fed to them.
I really don’t believe the overwhelming majority of the MAGA crowd are confused at all as to why Trump is being prosecuted for saying the election was rigged but Hillary wasn’t. I know the belief of popular culture is that the MAGA crowd are blithering idiots who are lucky to remember to inhale, but that is simply a caricature and, IMHO, not a literal characterization.
Sure, you have some who are, while functionally literate, would be considered illiterate by many measures. That is, they can read signs, fill out forms, and follow written instructions as needed to function in today’s society. Where they might have trouble is reading a novel, for example, as they may not have mastered reading comprehension as well as others. These groups exist in both camps, however.
I don’t believe that the majority of the MAGA crowd (who are likely to be as intelligent as those on the left) believe the bullshit they are being fed is the honest-to-God truth. They just don’t believe in the truth, so it doesn’t matter.
Trump stood up and lied to the American public for four years, nonstop. Those on the left as well as those on the right heard and understood the meaning of what he was saying. Those on the left rejected his message because it was based on lies. Those on the right didn’t mind the lies because while the literal truth of what Trump was saying may have been of questionable veracity, they believed in the meaning of what he was saying.
In a way, Trump has trained these people to disregard the truth and believe in the message. Much like a used-car salesman can sell a car with bald tires by saying, “You can but a brand-new tire for $40, that’s $160 for all four and you have all brand-new rubber. At this price, this car is a steal!” The salesman isn’t going to let the mark question his fact (you can buy a new tire for this car for $40), but will push the message (this car is a great value). Those in the MAGA crowd want to believe the message, so the facts are irrelevant.
So, no, I don’t believe that many MAGA followers are confused why Hillary wasn’t prosecuted for saying the election was rigged, but Trump is being prosecuted. The facts (Trump is not being prosecuted for saying the election was rigged, Hillary did not break laws in an attempt to overthrow the results) are simply irrelevant. To them, what is relevant is that obviously a political hit-job and that must be fought!
Not caring about the facts in the matter is not the same as being confused about the facts in the matter.
Beautiful post and beautiful summation. Thank you!
I’m going to agree and disagree. It’s not -unique- to the Conservatives to not read details, nor does it mean they’re idiots - both points you make quite well. Where I slightly disagree is that their minds are closed - it’s more that they never leave the bubble where those assertations are challenged. If you get nothing but propaganda, you don’t -know- the details, like the specifics of the DOI’s challenge (conspiracy, not the lies) and even if you consider yourself educated as many of these people do, you have so many other things to do that “wasting” time on such things is too much when everyone you TRUST (pastor, co-workers, people with other shared interests) are confirming everything for you as well. The whole “Where there’s smoke, there’s gotta be fire” or “everyone around me voted for Trump / agreed with me, so we can’t all be wrong” trope.
I know it’s not much of a distinction from EFAM’s post, but the reason I bring this up has to do with the point of the thread. We’ve had multiple concerns about secret MAGA types being involved in many of the juries, that will refuse to convict under any circumstances. And it’s a legitimate worry. But a lot of these folks, on numerous other juries associated with 45’s efforts, when confronted with the actual facts, have moved to convict. That’s because they aren’t TRULY close-minded, they’re just woefully misled and underinformed.
Sorry, minor distinction, but important to the eventual resolution of the investigation, indictments, and the ultimate resolution of this thread.
I know I’ve posted this bore about when I took Biology 101 as an undergraduate. I was in a study group with students who were making good grades on the exams, but when we reached the section about evolution these people shut down. The long and the short of it is that they simply refused to engage with the material and on the next test covering evolution went from A and B students to making Ds or Fs. It was amazing. They weren’t stupid people who simply couldn’t grasp the material they just outright refused to do so. I think about those students from time-to-time when I think abou MAGATs.
So when I talk to a Trump supporter, I don’t know if any ignorance they display is genuine or simply their refusal to engage. Or worst yet, those who know their hearing lies and parroting them anyway. In the short term I’m not sure if why really matters as we’ve got to deal with them no matter what.
They unsealed parts of the motion Jack Smith filed in the DC court to try to stop trump from running his mouth all the time. Not that I think anything will stop him, but the judge will try, I hope.
The government said the move was needed because Trump “has an established practice of issuing inflammatory public statements targeted at individuals or institutions that present an obstacle or challenge to him.”
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
–Voltaire
I’m trying. I’m TRYING!!
–Trump
I’ve been waiting for this motion to come for a while now. I just assumed Smith was just letting Trump speak and speak until he had enough rope to hang him. But I was a little worried this wasn’t coming at all.
Loser Donald responds to the request for a gag order by proving that one is needed.
" Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis turns on ‘malignant narcissist’ ex-president
Ellis, one of 18 Trump associates charged in Georgia election subversion case, says she ‘simply can’t support him’ again
Martin Pengelly in Washington
Fri 15 Sep 2023 21.46 BST
Jenna Ellis – the Donald Trump lawyer who like the former president faces criminal charges regarding attempted election subversion in his defeat by Joe Biden in 2020 – says she will not vote for him in the future because he is a “malignant narcissist” who cannot admit mistakes."
Now that is a ringing non-endorsement. NOT!
Seems to me to be the very least she can say as she slinks out the door. Someone with her knowledge ought to be on a national speaking tour, major media news conferences etc., dishing the facts loud and long about just how awful the reality is.
The problem with “ought to be” is that it goes far deeper than the current circumstances.
This is a broadening-out of the topic at hand, but I’ll give it a shot (and open up a separate thread if anyone’s interested) but the root problem with all these minor dissensions on the GOP side (from conspiracy-case codefendants, from Mitt Romney, from Joe Scarborough, etc.) is that they avoid the main issue: the fundamental rottenness at the core of conservative ideology, which exists to deny the rights of every American who is not rich, white, Christian, male, straight, and a few other attributes.
Jenna Ellis is saying, in effect, “I got caught, and to defend myself I’m going to turn on Trump to save my ass” but she doesn’t denounce (doesn’t realize) the corrupt thinking that got her supporting Trump in the first place, and without that understanding, her "ought to be"s are meaningless.