Let me clarify my earlier point about constitutional protection and illegal immigrants. I don’t think that anyone thinks people in the U.S. legal or illegal don’t deserve constitutional protection, but that’s not the issue. The issue is illegal immigrants receiving the same constitutional “rights and priviledges” as American citizens. Remember we were talking about a state that claims illegal immigrants don’t have the same right to travel as people here legally. This is a state that are not given the funds from the Feds that they are legally entitled to for incarcerating illegal immigrants while simultaneously being told not to enforce Federal law on illegal immigration. So when we talk about the Constitutional rights of illegal immigrants, are we talking about the same rights everyone in the US gets OR the same rights as American citizens because they are not the same thing and Arizona (justifiably) that the Feds mean the latter and not the former.
I’ve never studied or practiced immigration law, but my understanding is that citizens have, broadly speaking, only two sets of rights/privileges noncitizens have not: The right to vote and hold public office; and the right to reside and work on U.S. soil. Anything else applies equally to the guy who snuck over the border just to do a murder.
So overall you think sheriff Joe is doing a good job, and the lawsuit is probably wrong? Do you have any reservations about the guy at all, or do you pretty much agree with his publicly stated positions and actions across the board?
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison.
Canada is a wealthy nation so those coming would probably be a far lesser drain on resources than the average Mexican. Furthermore their education levels would be better so the effect would be spread out over a wider range of jobs. There is also the possibility that jobs in Canada could go to Americans balancing the books a little.
Also Canadians speak English so there would not be the same feelings of invasion.
In Ireland there was actually a degree of racism against the eastern Europeans, even though most Americans would classify the Irish and the poles as the same race - people will object to any perception that their jobs are being taken or their culture is being diminished, even if those others are ‘white’.
I should, I suppose, point out that the statements about arresting people who didn’t agree with him have been proven to be true in a court of law, and the lawyer who prosecuted and his associates have been disbarred for this.
It’s actually somewhat worse than the charges indicate. In one especially special case, the man chosen to serve the papers was someone who had threatened the judge the papers were being served on enough that the judge got police protection from the man. The charges were unfounded, but the prosecutor had the judge’s reaction filmed, and used it in a… was it a press release?
This is a bizarre notion. If low socioeconomic status individuals are a burden on the economy, then why do high socioeconomic status individuals continue to employ them? Has the notion that job creators provide employment as a form of clemency really sept through into the public unconscious?
Is it acceptable for someone to think that maybe things should not be that way? Can you imagine that someone would, while still wanting law enforcement to abide by the law, think that some laws are more important than others? Murder is probably more important than getting your feelings hurt for example.
Anti-immigration people make a big deal about the law being the law. It doesn’t matter that Canada is a wealthy nation. If people are breaking the law, they are breaking the law and need to be deported.
I’d actually be more concerned about a middle-class, educated illegal alien “stealing” jobs than a poor guy who’s intent on picking tomatoes and cleaning houses and just generally flying beneath the economic radar. Most Americans are not picking tomatoes or cleaning houses. They are looking for middle-class, “educated” jobs…those jobs that a clean-cut, English-speaking Canadian could snatch up easily. They can’t complain about Mexicans stealing jobs they don’t even want while not being the least bit worried about the jobs they DO want being “stolen” by the international students they went to college with.
The thing is that there are significant number of clean-cut, English-speaking illegal immigrants swimming around. Not just from Canada, but from other places–all hoping that no one finds out that they’ve overstayed their visas. It would be interesting to see how many non-Hispanic illegal aliens have gotten swept up in Arizona and whether this percentage is representative of their numbers in the general population.
Well, this seems to be a question of fact, then. One or two individual instances? Sure, if that’s all there are, it will look like you’re right. But the complain alleges a pattern of hundreds, if not thousands, of individual cases. If plaintiff DOJ can prove that… then?
Sheriff Arpaio may not be a likeable guy.
But he has done nothing but enforce the “Secure Communities” Program (Latino | Fox News)-
that Congress and Obama authorized.
Exactly how is he breaking any laws? Illegal aliens are that-illegal, and are subject to deportation. Moreover, what about the rights of American citizens?
You can criticize Arpaio for many things, but he is enforcing the law as it is written.
And, BTW, AG Eric Holder still hasn’t admitted his role in “Operation Fast and Furious”-in which 2000 odd automatic weapons were given to Mexican criminals-these guns were later used in many murders, including one of a US Border Patrol officer.
Holder “can’t remember”…so I guess its OK.
So, you ignore the negative stuff Arpaio did, declare unilaterally that he’s guilty of nothing but upholding the law, make an emotional appeal for the poor, oppressed American citizens that are being abused by Big Immigrant™ and then randomly Gish-Gallop onto another completely unrelated issue, which you mis-characterize, presumably because you get your information from biased news sources that lie to you.
It is certainly acceptable for a Doper to so argue here. Do so if you can.
But it would have to be more of an “argument” and more relevant than that. Certainly the law against murder is more important than that against border-crossing, which the actual law reflects in classifying the former as a felony and the latter as a misdemeanor.