She did attack him and his wife personally before, and his nasty post was in direct response to that attack. So, no, she is not being “the better person”.
Altho I dont like that sort of shit, if you can’t take it dont dish it out.
Do you have a link to that post? It might put things in further context.
First, let me say from the outset, that whatever the staff decides - whether it being altering the rules or banning me - I support you. If you don’t want me here, that’s entirely your prerogative. I won’t whine, complain, make a thread saying it’s unfair, or attempt to sneak back in. This is your house, your lawn, your white space. Second, I believe I have followed the rules of the BBQ Pit. Lastly, I think the outrage is overblown. The hypocrisy, in my view, stands out in vivid technicolor. Let me explain. When someone isn’t liked here, they are piled upon, and when they are piled upon, the members here cheer. When someone is liked here, and they are piled on, they are protected by the members here. There’s nothing wrong with this, I’m just pointing it out (from my point of view).
Kuchiyose No Jutsu
This, in my view, is no worse than anything I’ve ever said. But, because this is directed toward a poster that the members here don’t like, it wasn’t looked down at as an attack, but it was, in part, * cheered and celebrated on by posters* Delicious**, Vinyl Turnip, Skywatcher, John Mace, Left Hand of Dorkness, bobot, Whiskey Dickens, Emiliana, elucidator, and gnoitall. No one, at least from my reading of the posts after, thought that referring to someone as a terminal condition was over the line. Not. A. Single. One. So, referring to someone as a terminal condition in the BBQ Pit is OK and is celebrated, but to make fun of mental illness somehow crosses the line? Really? To point out that white folks adopt and marry people of color and use them as license to be racist crosses the line as well. Really? There’s no consistency other than the if you’re liked, you get a pass, and if you’re not liked, you don’t. The whole thing smacks of white fragility. Again, my point of view. It screams out, at least to me, that you all can dish it out to people of color whether it be talking about how stupid and shiftless we are, or posting real-life picture to smear people of color, or your inaction thereof; but you cry foul and run to the staff when people of color give it back to you.
First post - minding my business (never mentioned Guin in the post)
Second post - Guin’s response attacking my wife
Third post - My response to Guin attacking her mental illness
Polly-anna here. Hueys posts are toxic. You can’t debate a topic if you spend your whole post bad mouthing and name calling. Especially if you bring up others children or illnesses. It’s just wrong. And like the OP, I don’t care if it’s the Pit, too far is too far.
Sincere kudos. That’s the proper perspective.
Yes. Really. In the 1st case, somebody is using a metaphor to attack a poster. In your case, you have brought a poster’s kids into the picture for the purposes of a personal attack. You have also attacked someone’s struggle with mental illness. Your attacks are highly personal in the way Bone’s vitreol (which by the way is not typical for him) is not personal. Bone didn’t engage in cheap shots. You do.
I stand behind my defenses of Huey. But I also believe in encouraging self awareness. His attacks are below the belt. If he doesn’t grasp this, I suspect trainwrecks moving forward.
Want to argue the beltline is set by the white majority in the US? Have at it. But there’s a bright distinction at highly personal attacks on ones family, and usage of metaphors like, “Have you stopped beating your wife?” There’s no comparison. The inbred autism theory is a separate thing though. I perceive that as parallel to any number of racist dingbat constructs considered wholly acceptable for GD.
ETA: Hm. Not giving advice, but Huey could conceivably pivot to a chin stroking consider-all-sides approach to white inbred autism on this message board. Keeping the attack generic rather than specific to any poster. I mean he’s not saying that the poster he’s conversing with is an neckbeard basement dweller, but reasonable people can’t rule that out can they? Of course his counterpart could also be Captain Marvel. Who’s to say?
I just imagine a bunch of middle-aged shut-ins feeding off offending each other in the dimly lit space they inhabit called “no-life.”
I’m not trying ti piss anybody off. That is really what I think. :smack:
It’s ingroup vs outgroup. The vitriol directed at those pitted is not appreciated when reciprocated.
Ah. I get it.
“Have you stopped beating your wife” is a rhetorical gimmick that Guin likely didn’t even stop to realize was a pretty pointed attack.
Honestly, I didn’t even see it as anything other than a rhetorical device simply because I’ve seen it so tiresomely used for so long here. (It’s not a metaphor, it’s a schoolyard “gotcha” barely above “have you told your mom you’re gay.”)
Not a kind thing to say, regardless of her intent. It reads as a shitty, nasty insinuation. When accused of perpetrating domestic violence, I really can’t fault an aggro response.
.
I don’t like a lot of Huey writes, but I don’t think he should be banned. FWIW, I’ve disagreed with the bannings of other posters like Clothahump and Starving Artist, and it sure as hell wasn’t because I liked what they wrote. But like Huey, their over-the-top stuff was mostly confined to the Pit.
I don’t disagree that Huey’s posts are nasty, and I admit the last one about Guin made me uncomfortable. I thought Huey was just throwing shit at the wall when he insulted Guin about her use of medications, but apparently, that’s a real issue. Calling it like I see it, I for one think that’s borderline warning material, IMO. I think there are personal attacks, and there are punches that are just below the belt. But having said that, it is the Pit, it’s not like Huey has hidden who his is, and people keep coming back to that thread. One recent post in response to Huey was taken from another thread and cross-posted to the WTF is Wrong With Huey thread. Like poking an angry lion, what do posters expect? As was said up the thread, there is an ignore feature. Why ban or why even warn someone when posters keep responding to him voluntarily in the Pit?
Beyond that, I’ve seen a lot of nasty posts from a lot of others in the Pit. I admit that I’ve posted some pretty nasty shit myself, and I’m sure others have PM’ed to try to get me suspended or worse. But my understanding is the Pit is the place where we can let 'er rip. I’m not saying that the Pit is absolutely lawless and that absolutely anything goes. But Huey’s offenses, with some exceptions, are not ban-worthy. I get that sometimes there are grey areas, but if you want to warn him, do so and then post it so that others can see where boundaries are.
I believe Guin even linked a page on loaded questions that uses that very question as an example.
ETA: huh. Twice.
Seriously? Are you unfamiliar with that (tired and off-point) cliche? She was no more attacking your wife than she might have been impugning your oatmeal-preparation abilities had she chosen a different cliche.
When Bone declared Morgenstern a cancer, he was talking about Morgenstern’s behavior on this board, using a metaphor for it. Happens he was on-point, but even if he’d been wrong, he was still criticizing on-board behavior. I’ve been called a scold, shrill, a social justice warrior, and apparently a white supremacist. While I don’t agree with at least two of those, those are all attacks on my board behavior, so they’re fair game, in the pit at least.
But if you start saying shitty things about my family, or about other aspects of my off-board life, that crosses a line.
Guin doesn’t even know if you’re married, and she didn’t even spell “wife” right. She wasn’t attacking you personally. You responded in an entirely different manner.
Agreed. AFAIK, this is the only thing Huey has ever posted that I agree with:
Anyways, I think attacks on a poster’s family should result in warnings or bans. I’ve been disappointed by the board’s tolerance for this behavior in the past. I also think attacks on someone’s personal history / condition(s) are generally vile and this place would be better if they were prohibited. Lastly, I think the SDMB would be a better place if the sort of caustic personal attacks that are common in the BBQ Pit were prohibited entirely.
TL;DR = ban all teh things!!11! (except my guns ;))
ETA: ahhh, shit, it seems that LHoD and I might be in agreement here. I think I have to reconsider my position now.
I’m belatedly familiar with the cliche` but, at the time, I did not take it as a cliche or rhetorical device. Where I come from, we don’t ask each other stuff like that unless they are serious. I thought she intended to be serious and took it as such. As for the last paragraph. Guin corrects herself and makes it clear she was talking about my wife. See thispost(by you) and Guin.
I don’t expect a sensible answer from you, but I am curious why you keep referring to the PIT. It’s the BBQ Pit. Pit is not an acronym so does not need capitalisation. You’ve been here 2 decades, you must have noticed this yet you’re still using the same stupid orthography you were doing in the '00s.
…I’m finding it very hard to disagree with the honorable 8-legged gentleman. Yeah, Huey’s insult was below the belt, hurtful, and something that I don’t think belongs on these boards.
But if we make the decision that we don’t tolerate this: then I think we also have to make the decision not to tolerate the accusations that are flying around Huey’s pit thread that he isn’t really black. I think that targeting a black poster who posts about the reality of the black experience with accusations that his experiences are not real is every-bit as hurtful as what he posted about Guinastasia IMHO. I had a moderator (in the pit) make the same veiled accusation about me. That I wasn’t really a Maori. That I was a bot just saying Maori words. That fucking hurts. Its a hurt that most of you guys don’t understand: you can’t understand. But if we are going to make mental illness off-limits (and I think that we should) then we need to make bigger, broader changes than that as well.
I think we have to make the decision that we don’t tolerate posters who regularly say stuff like this:
There was a poster who, in response to being told that they were “repulsive and disgusting”, responded with this:
I don’t think we should tolerate this sort of misogynistic, intimidating, creepy, personal stuff here.
But we do. We tolerate misogyny, we tolerate racism, we tolerate intimidation, we tolerate prejudice. I think we need to take a much broader look at how the pit works and I think that we need to have that discussion outside of the context of a thread about Huey. He didn’t break any of the rules. If the rules are wrong: then change the rules.
And just a quick shout-out to Miller. I think its amazing that the pit only has a single moderator. His decisions are always consistent and fair and for a forum that has the potential to spiral out-of-control he has done an exceptional job of keeping it together.
Then it should’ve been in the rules. Which Guin violated by attacking my wife regardless of her intention by using such a pointed rhetorical device. To claim post hoc outrage and play shoulda-woulda-coulda is absurd.
…I think that expecting everyone to be familiar with a “tired and off-point cliche” to be unrealistic. I’m not entirely sure all of my friends and family would be familiar with it.
She corrects her post to indicate that she was in fact using the cliche of a loaded question. Not your actual wife. You are still indicating that you still believe it was meant as an attack on your wife, despite all evidence to the contrary.
If she had, as was suggested above, referred to no true Scotsman, how could you have interpreted that as an attack on a loved one?
Jeez.
Maybe I need to clarify that when I referred to “Komodo Dragon Shodan” in Huey’s white-people-are-the-devil thread, it was a joke, in reference to Huey’s ludicrously over-the-top allusion to “Grand Dragon Shodan”. I would never expect people to believe that Shodan has poisonous bacteria and venom-laden saliva (though the part about his throwing up the entire contents of his stomach in order to make a getaway from uncomfortable situations is true enough).*
*but only after eating at Chipotle.