Don't know how to feel about this cop's question...

[Freudian_Slit]

@Ambivalid

You are comparing apples to oranges. Not comparable whatsoever. That lady had no placard displayed. And I don’t know where “chased her” came from, other than your own inaccurate description on my story, but all I did was ask her if she did have one.

Well, the part where you went back into the store and told her to display her placard even though it had nothing to do with you.

[billfish678]

@Ambivalid

He didn’t DO that because I didn’t refuse to answer his question. :smack:

.

So you now have the superpower to predict future dickish behavior even when all the evidence points in the other direction?

[Ambivalid]

@chiroptera

If parking illegally in handicapped parking spots is as prevalent and heinous as you’ve made it out to be, then the cop was right to question you. It’s a cop’s nature to be suspicious and while he perhaps could have been a tad more diplomatic about it, I see nothing in your OP that indicates “wrong.”

As you well know - people misuse HP placards, sometimes even steal them. This happened to a friend of mine in September actually, she was down in Jackson MI at Wal-Mart and forgot to lock her van, someone swiped her placard.

I don’t see what was wrong with what the cop did. He asked you to verify whether or not you were really disabled - most disabled folks don’t drive low-slung sports cars - and when you assured him you were, he said OK and left.

I also think it says something about your self-image as a potentially victimizable disabled person that the first thing you did was wave your placard at him when he hit the light bar. If I had a bug up my ass about being white, or a woman, or driving an import vehicle in SE Michigan, I could come up with all sorts of assumptions when being pulled over. And then right away asked him why he didn’t see your placard - that sounds somewhat combatative, not deferential and polite (which is the quickest way to diffuse a civilian-cop interaction and works really well, speaking from experience.)

Popsters whom say “you’re wrong” aren’t necessarily doing so because they don’t like you. But rather, because your posting history here shows you to be a combatative, chip-on-the-shoulder crip. Three of my good friends are crips with disabled placards or plates here in SE MI; to the best of my knowledge none has a repertoire of victim stories to tell like you do. Why is that, I wonder?

Small but important point: I didn’t say “why didn’t you see my placard hanging from the rearview?” but rather, “did* you see my placard hanging from the rearview*?” I make this distinction because you try to characterize what I say to the officer as combative. Well yes, if what I had said had actually been what you posted that I said; then I’d agree that it sounded a bit combative. But those weren’t my words.

[Ambivalid]

@billfish678

So you now have the superpower to predict future dickish behavior even when all the evidence points in the other direction?

WHa?

THe whole point of our convo was that he very likely could/would have turned aggressive/asshole if I would have refused to answer his question; like you suggested I do. If that would have happened, the incident could have turned out a lot worse for me. I didn’t even want to risk such a foolish thing.

[Ambivalid]

@Freudian_Slit

Well, the part where you went back into the store and told her to display her placard even though it had nothing to do with you.

I was going back into the store to pay for my things at the counter. The only reason I had gone back out to my car is because I had forgotten my wallet. I was not following her. She just happened to be in line with me.

[Freudian_Slit]

OK, you didn’t chase her but from her perspective you were being an annoying busy body. It’s not like you were a police officer – you’re some random guy who feels it’s his place to remind people about their handicapped placards, when it’s really not.

[billfish678]

@Ambivalid

WHa?

THe whole point of our convo was that he very likely could/would have turned aggressive/asshole if I would have refused to answer his question; like you suggested I do. If that would have happened, the incident could have turned out a lot worse for me. I didn’t even want to risk such a foolish thing.

Yeah right.

So, if you had said “Sir, I find your question regarding my actual disability to be inappropriate and too personal. However, if you run my tag, driver’s license, and handicapped permit you will find everything is in order” he would have gone all gonzo on your behind?

[chiroptera]

@Ambivalid

Small but important point: I didn’t say “why didn’t you see my placard hanging from the rearview?” but rather, “did* you see my placard hanging from the rearview*?” I make this distinction because you try to characterize what I say to the officer as combative. Well yes, if what I had said had actually been what you posted that I said; then I’d agree that it sounded a bit combative. But those weren’t my words.

I come to the same conclusion, actually. Why would you even ask this?
No qualitative difference whether you included the word “did” in your question.
Perhaps you are combative without realising you are?

[Cazzle]

You should move. Everyone in your town sounds like such a jerk. You’re always there being polite and respectful and they always respond with hostility, suspicion, aggression or some combination thereof. Must be Flint to blame, it’s the only common link.

[Candyman74]

@Ambivalid

What if the nature of my disability was a deeply personal, painful issue to me? One that I couldn’t/didn’t feel comfortable discussing with people with whom I wasn’t close, much less a perfect stranger like a police officer?

But it’s not.

It’s something you spread all over the internet at every opportunity.

There’s no “what if”. If you have to invent fictional realities to support your position, there’s something wrong with your position .

[Candyman74]

@Ambivalid

THe whole point of our convo was that he very likely could/would have turned aggressive/asshole if I would have refused to answer his question; like you suggested I do. If that would have happened, the incident could have turned out a lot worse for me. I didn’t even want to risk such a foolish thing.

And now you’re inventing character traits he doesn’t even have!

So you’ve invented a fictional universe where your disability is a secret which you don’t share with others and the cop is violent and aggressive.

That’s fine; you can invent realities to your heart’s content. What you can’t do is expect everyone else to live in your fictional reality and act accordingly.

[Lacunae_Matata]

Maybe this is just me going off on a tangent, but an earlier point posted here got me thinking: it really IS the nature of a cop’s job to ask some pretty personal questions. From “why are you parked here?” being asked of a driver parked on a suburban street at an odd hour or a driver who seems to be scoping out a school or playground. Or “what was the nature of the assault?” Or “can you show me your receipt?” if someone’s accused of shoplifting. If you’re falsely suspected, it’s annoying, and officers can certainly be tactless, but how can they do their jobs without asking deeply personal questions?

And I can completely see “what’s the nature of your handicap?” as one of those questions designed to trip up someone trying to use another person’s placard. No immediate answer would give the patrolman ready reason to run your information. The question saves you and him a lot of time. (And I completely agree that, if he didn’t react to you reaching into the back toward your chair, he wasn’t very suspicious of you.)

[chiroptera]

From my earlier post:

Three of my good friends are crips with disabled placards or plates here in SE MI; to the best of my knowledge none has a repertoire of victim stories to tell like you do. Why is that, I wonder?

Any thoughts on this, Jamie?
Three people who live in the same county as you (and I - we are practically neighbors) who are legitimately disabled, and who have no grievances with anyone over harassment, wrongful use of disabled placards or plates, who have full and interesting lives and don’t first and foremost identify as crips. Each has other identities that supercede “disabled.”

None of them got a big settlement, none can afford sports cars or nice homes or gym memberships like you can. Two out of the three get by on about $700 a month disability. Two out of the three volunteer. None of these three give a toss one way or the other about being disabled, they just live their lives.

They’re all women. Maybe it’s a testosterone thing?

[Bri2k]

I’m glad no one was hurt and they didn’t have to call the waaaambulance.

Bri2k

[straight_man]

@Ambivalid

I’m wrong to consider this question inappropriate? Really? When a valid drivers license and valid placard were readily available? It’s none of the cops business as to details of my personal life. You are saying I’m wrong? Really?

And I think alot of the posters who say “Im wrong” are doing so more because they simply dislike me than for any substantial topical differences of opinion.

In my opinion, the question was a faux pas, and not a very severe one. You have offered no reason to believe that it was against the law to ask that, and there’s lots of reason to think it is not (i.e. you’re wrong!), nor do we have any reason to think the police have a policy against asking about disabilities. We happen to know that you personally have committed worse offenses against politeness — but that said, so I have I. So has anybody. It’s not “because they simply dislike me”, it’s because at best you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Ambivalid]

@chiroptera

From my earlier post:

Any thoughts on this, Jamie?
Three people who live in the same county as you (and I - we are practically neighbors) who are legitimately disabled, and who have no grievances with anyone over harassment, wrongful use of disabled placards or plates, who have full and interesting lives and don’t first and foremost identify as crips. Each has other identities that supercede “disabled.”

None of them got a big settlement, none can afford sports cars or nice homes or gym memberships like you can. Two out of the three get by on about $700 a month disability. Two out of the three volunteer. None of these three give a toss one way or the other about being disabled, they just live their lives.

They’re all women. Maybe it’s a testosterone thing?

Look, it’s been clear for a long time that you and I don’t see eye to eye on pretty much anything. I have no interest in taking part or opening anything you’ve started and you have a nasty, judgmental streak in the stuff that you post in thread’s I’ve started. Why don’t we agree to just disagree and not ever bother each other at all? You have demonstrated, time and time again, that you are incapable of seeing anything I do with an unbiased, non judgmental viewpoint.

[Ambivalid]

@straight_man

In my opinion, the question was a faux pas, and not a very severe one. You have offered no reason to believe that it was against the law to ask that, and there’s lots of reason to think it is not (i.e. you’re wrong!), nor do we have any reason to think the police have a policy against asking about disabilities. We happen to know that you personally have committed worse offenses against politeness — but that said, so I have I. So has anybody. It’s not “because they simply dislike me”, it’s because at best you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.

By discussing it on a messageboard? That’s making it into a mountain? Wow.

[Alice_The_Goon]

@Ambivalid

Look, it’s been clear for a long time that you and I don’t see eye to eye on pretty much anything. I have no interest in taking part or opening anything you’ve started and you have a nasty, judgmental streak in the stuff that you post in thread’s I’ve started. Why don’t we agree to just disagree and not ever bother each other at all? You have demonstrated, time and time again, that you are incapable of seeing anything I do with an unbiased, non judgmental viewpoint.

Yeah, you do this to me, too. Instead of addressing the points in our posts respectfully , you degrade our personalities, calling her nasty and judgmental and calling me a goon. Why can’t you address our posts?

[chiroptera]

@Lacunae_Matata

Maybe this is just me going off on a tangent, but an earlier point posted here got me thinking: it really IS the nature of a cop’s job to ask some pretty personal questions. From “why are you parked here?” being asked of a driver parked on a suburban street at an odd hour or a driver who seems to be scoping out a school or playground. Or “what was the nature of the assault?” Or “can you show me your receipt?” if someone’s accused of shoplifting. If you’re falsely suspected, it’s annoying, and officers can certainly be tactless, but how can they do their jobs without asking deeply personal questions?

And I can completely see “what’s the nature of your handicap?” as one of those questions designed to trip up someone trying to use another person’s placard. No immediate answer would give the patrolman ready reason to run your information. The question saves you and him a lot of time. (And I completely agree that, if he didn’t react to you reaching into the back toward your chair, he wasn’t very suspicious of you.)

If I go to someone’s bank to cash a check, I hand over my drivers license and provide a fingerprint…the info on my license and whatever someone could find out from my fingerprint is pretty damn personal informaton, probably.

But it’s a small cost to pay for the convenience and helps ward off fraud and illegal activity so no big deal. Laws here allow for disabled persons to have convenient parking and other entitlements, which is cool but since subject to fraud, there have to be checks and balances. Inconvenient for sure but entitlements are not supposed to be 100% hassle-free.

[straight_man]

@Lacunae_Matata

Maybe this is just me going off on a tangent, but an earlier point posted here got me thinking: it really IS the nature of a cop’s job to ask some pretty personal questions.

Quite so —this is why I was so dubious about the speculation that asking about disability went against police procedure or the law. Even though the cop could have used another way of reaching the same point, there are situations where you have to pry, so it’s almost certainly within his rights. Of course, the opposite hypothetical to Jaimie’s is if Jaimie had shown his offense — there’s every possibility the cop would have said, “Oh, sorry, didn’t mean to pry, just show me your ID.” Like I said, I really think the simplest explanation here is that it was a faux pas.