Auntie Em, I understand the point about how two for one deals are just as much work. But let me change your example-
One Tuesday, you wait on ten tables (30 people) , your sales are about $500 and you get $65, get the sidework and some homework done, and go home early.
On Wednesday ,you wait on 10 tables (30 people), your sales are about $1000 (because people on Wed ordered more expensive meals and drinks instead of soda), you get $130, the sidework and homework done and go home early. If the tip is supposed to be based on the work, then why am I expected to tip more for a more expensive meal that requires the same work? It makes perfect sense to want it both ways as a server. Expecting customers to find it acceptable is another story
Elaborating on Sauron and doreen’s point, let’s go back to the wine bottles I brought up originally.
Can we all agree that you do the exact same amount of work whether your customer orders a $50 bottle of wine or a $100 bottle of wine?
But many people in this thread tell me that I should tip at least $7.50 for the first bottle but at least $15 for the second one. You’re asking me to pay $7.50 more for the exact same amount of work. You’d be happy with $7.50 for the first bottle but deeply insulted if I gave that to you for the second.
Now let’s add a variable into the equation. Say, for whatever reason, you’ve got a coupon for half off the $100 bottle of wine. I don’t know, you clipped it out of Frou Frou Wine Weekly.
Now that second bottle costs you $50. Again, you’re doing the same amount of work as opening the original $50 bottle of wine, but you’re telling me that I should still pay you $15 in tip.
Well I was going to post, but this summed it up pretty much verbatum.
Also, if I withhold a tip from a pizza delivery boy, I have a valid reason for doing so. If I was told “Fuck You”, I’d ram that fucking pizza box so far down his throat he’d look like Spongebob.
Tough work? Boo hoo cry me a river, all work is tough work.
Greasing the wheels begins with taking care of the customer first. With the attitudes that are present in this thread, it’s no fucking wonder you get tipped shitily. You can’t attract flies with vinegar and all that crap…
Serving a table with 2 people is more work than serving a table of 1. If a table of 2 has a 2 for 1 coupon, then the server is doing the work of serving a two top, with the tip of serving a one top. So the table should tip the pre-discounted price. Makes perfect sense to me.
That’s the point. The server is doing more work than what they are being tipped for if the table tips on the post-discounted price. They are not doing the same amount of work. They are doing more.
What’s so hard to understand about that?
To addres your second point: more expensive items are typically more involved items to serve. A bottle of wine requires complete wine service (dependent on the restaurant which can be quite time consuming) certain dishes require certain prep work for the table and the dish, the more expensive dishes usually require more in depth prep and so on.
It’s not black and white and there are so many things that can change on a situational basis that’s it’s just easier to tip on the ticket amount (pre-discounted if it applies), instead of nitpicking it to death.
Are you kidding me with this? Because for the hundredth time, the server is being taxed on the amount of the wine. We’ve gone over this. A number of times.
As far as the coupon goes, in all of the resteruants I’ve worked at, the server was still taxed on the pre-discounted price. All of the dicounts were disclosed on another part of the server report. The IRS assumed that people would not be cheapasses and would tip on the origional amount.
There’s only been one poster on this thread who even alluded to requiring a tip beforegiving good service, and I think she has been misunderstood by a number of people.
No one else said you have to “buy them off” (as you are implying)in order to get good service. We are simply saying that if you develop a rep for being a shitty tipper, don’t expect VIP treatment. Quite a reasonable assumption IMHO.
If you get your panties in that much of a twist about it, you must be a real tightwad. :rolleyes:
maybe what you read as ‘explanations’ sound more like complaints to me.
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Bitter much?
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no, I like my job. that’s why I do it. Which is why I said to those complaining out less than stellar tippers or complain about the hard work, well, get another job. 150 a night seems pretty well compensated to me. although I KNOW it’s not always the case. I know you guys have bad nights ,too.
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You just might have.
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waste my time going to college?
no. I wrote that in a little thing called sarcasm. You might try and look it up sometime. oh, I am sorry. I forgot the witty: :rolleyes:
talk about pulling this out of no where. WHERE did I imply this? Frankly, I am impressed.
I agreed with this, so your point is? I realize it’s hard work. I realize waiters bust their asses.
quit being a dick what with the “I’ll say it really slow” shit.
My point is: LOADS of people have hard jobs. If you don’t like it when you are stiffed constantly, or what have you, get another job. It’s part of the terratory, regrettably.
and your point with this was?
um, let’s see you you can pay attention:
I * do* believe in tipping well. I do believe that waiters work hard.
The smartass remarks are reserved for the waiters that feel entitled to 15% ALL THE TIME reagrdless of the service.
so i am not allowed to chime in with my sentiments? Oh I see… it’s been said, so I better not post. yeah, that’s exactly how this place works.
not everyone makes that. Some don’t even come close.
really? Now, granted, no one has ever called me stupid (I would walk out - NO ONE should put up with it), but apparently you live in some place where office jobs are dreamy. Condescending? Try working with old school contracters who don’t think a woman can do the job. But, what ever, I realize that is part of the terratory. When ever I find it to be too much, I can quit.
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Or letting there children run around unattended and then blaiming you when one of them gets hurt.
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you got me there. no kids in my workplace.
man, I could tell you about weeks of overtime without compensation (salary). Talk about headaches, sore shoulders etc…
There are days when I think that waitressing would be a better job… but really, i do like my job despite the headaches.
Look, I realize that my posts have come off snarky: I appologize. Maybe I was having a long day, I dunno. I guess I got irritated by people like Audrey or those that say they put shit in people’s food…cause that’s just wrong.
my whole point was:
I do believe in treating waiters good. I do know they have hard jobs.
I do know they count on their tips.
but
if I get crappy service, I will tip less than 15%. I am irritated by those that think that they magically deserve the 15% regardless.
I guess I have seen too many instances in RL where that was the case.
BTW, for those who are still waitering, in case you haven’t heard it today thanks for doing a hard job.
If this is true, why on earth would any server willingly work at a restaurant (or bar, or whatever) that ever participated in one of those coupon books?
I will willingly and cheerfully tip a percentage based on the final bill. Don’t ask me to tip based on some imaginary number that the bill could have been if I wasn’t taking advantage of a deal offered by your company.
Let’s say that a restaurant, in an attempt to generate more business and/or undercut a competitor, arbitrarily decided to cut the price of all entrees by $2. However, in the menu, they print a request to all patrons to continue tipping at the old price level. You think many folks are going to do that?
Finally, I’m going to resort to physics to debunk the “I’m doing twice the work for two customers vs. one customer” crap. In physics, work is defined as the result of the equation Force x Distance. Since the distance traveled to the table will remain relatively constant (I’m willing to admit that one or two extra trips might have to be made to the table, since drink refills might require more trips for two than for one), the only way the amount of work increases twofold is if you’re carrying significantly more weight to the table each time. The weight of one extra entree isn’t going to be enough to double the overall amount of work. It’s a slight increase, yes, but not enough to justify the claim that you’re doing “twice the work.”
But, AFAICR, no one in this thread has ever mentioned that you’re getting taxed on the pre discounted price until you did just then. My comments have been based on the arguments servers have made about the amount of work they put in. Thus, I gave an example where they do the exact same amount of work and still expect more.
Tell me how this whole IRS thing works in bars. Do they expect 15% of total sales to go to tips and thus hit the bartenders? What if they’re already making above minimum wage? What if the bar is located inside a restaurant? The IRS taxes two people differently for serving the exact same item in the exact same establishment?
What if you worked in an uber exclusive restaurant and they offered spotted owl testicles for $1000 a serving. All you had to do is bring the plate over. Tell me you’d be disappointed with a $100 tip. 10%? How low can your customer be!
None of the servers or X servers on this thread were complaining. Some people came in with the “I don’t tip because I don’t like the system!” mentality. People were disputing this, saying that disliking the system is no reason to stiff a server. The server didn’t make the system.
People then asked why they should tip, and tip at least 15%. They asked for an explanation. The servers and X servers then provided one.
You then accuse them of complaining? How is providing an explanation complaining?
I thought you were implying lies on the servers part about how much they brought in by the overall tone you posted it in. Especially since it was followed up by the college statement. Sounded to me as if you were implying that the servers didn’t deserve to make that kind of money without a college education. My apologies if I took it the wrong way.
I reacted so harshly to your post because it had the overall attitude of “you all are just a bunch of whiny crybabies who should be damn grateful you’re getting what you’re getting, now put up or shut up.” Which I think is horseshit.
The servers and X servers in this thread were asked questions, which they have responded to. To then come back and accuse them of whining and telling them if they don’t like it to just quit is both putting words in their mouths and punishing them for honestly answering questions that are posed to them.
Your post just didn’t make sense to me. You go from lecturing servers and telling them to just do their job and stop whining, to praising them for their hard work. Actually, you kinda sound like a resterant manager…
Sorry bout that. I’ve never worked in a resturant that participated in one of those coupon books. We just did specials every now and then in a local newspaper or such. Never a regular thing. And we were always taxed on the before price. It may be different in other resterants. I’d imagine that the ones who regularly participate in those dumb books get taxed on the after price, I’d have to ask for one of them to chime in on that though.
I’ve got no idea. I’ve never bartended.
That’s all relative. Am I being taxed on the $1000 serving? Because then, I might just be disapointed. If you can afford to order some $1000 spotted owl testicles then you can certainly afford the extra $50 in tip!
I wouldn’t. See my answer above, it may be different at different resturants. We’ll have to see if one of them chime in.
And actually, in the fine print on the bottom of some of those coupons I’ve actually seen it say “gratuity should be based on the entree price before discount.” Don’t know if that makes any difference to you.
I’ll give you the one person vs. two person work that you debunked with the physics explanation. Ya got me there. I stand by my assertation though when it comes down to more than 3 people. Physics or not, my years in the resturant industry tells me that a 4 top is more work than a one or two top. Period.
Yeah, if you’ve got the rep of being a bad tipper. What do you expect? No one is going to bust their ass for you when they know you’re going to tip them shitty (you’ve got the rep, remember) and they know the other table might be a big tipper. When you’re working for tips that’s just common sense.
Well well. Looks like I struck a nerve. I never said you had to dole out cash like it’s Monopoly money. I just said that in the service industry, where people work for tips if you act like a tightwad, you’re gonna be treated like one, i.e. no one is gonna waste their time going out of their way for you. That’s the way our service industry works. If you want to be treated like a VIP, you’re gonna have to pay like one. It’s not fair, but hey, neither is life.
And yes, I do believe that making a big fuss over tipping a standard amount (15%) if nothing is wrong with service, does make one a tightwad. :wally
Yes, if the service was good I would be insulted to receive 10% on a 1000.00 ticket. Because, don’t forget, I made 100.00 but I’m going to tip out at least 5% to other restaurant staff. So, that means I actually made LESS than 10% on your table but I’m still going to be taxed at 10% based on my sales.
I’ve explained it several times and you still don’t get it, so whatever, keep it up with your shitty tips, you’ll end up receiving the sort of service you deserve. I would never do such a thing for lots of reasons, most importantly because the poor tipper just might not know any better. However, you’ve had it explained to you so if you still tip poorly, you deserve poor service.
As far as the coupon books, my restaurant actually participated in two of them and they were a total pain in the ass. Although it clearly stated on the coupon to tip based on the pre-discounted total, it rarely happened. I wouldn’t have left the restaurant over the practice, it was more of an annoyance than anything else.
This is the most laughable argument I’ve heard yet, that it’s just as easy to wait on 4 people as it is 2. Okay, what about 6 people? Is it just as easy to wait on 6 people? What about 8 people?
It does make sense all by itself that the tip should be the same based on the amount of work, not the price paid.It doesn’t make sense when table one should tip 15% of the $30 their meal would have cost, if they didn’t have a two-fer, table two should tip 15% of the $30 their meal did cost , and table 3 should tip 15% of the $50 their meal did cost, when all three tables have two customers and require the same amount of work. And remember the price range here- $50 for two people is not a fancy restaurant with very involved service. Is there some reason that a server at Red Lobster works significantly harder to bring me a $20 lobster dinner rather than the $10 shrimp dinner?
and this sort of remark gives me little reason for tipping based on the pre-discount price because that’s what you’re taxed on:
I’m not going to say no servers declare tips above the point that keeps them safe from the IRS. But I bet most don’t. Which is why I don’t have a great deal of sympathy for “but I get taxed on the pre-discount amount” Maybe (and if so, it’s because of the way your employer keeps records), but you effectively don’t get taxed on what you choose not to declare. There’s a reason for that assumption of a certain level of tip- it ain’t because the IRS believes servers should be tipped- it’s because they aretipped and they didn’t used to report it at all because it was nearly impossible to prove.
You get $100 tip on $1000 worth of food.
You pay out 5% of that to the barstaff/kitchen/whomever. That’s $20.
Let’s assume you’re in the 30% bracket. You must pay $30 on those tips.
That’s a net, for you, of $50 when all is said and done. $50 for bringing someone a plate.
We’re not talking about a party of 20 who each ordered a $50 entree and then stiffed you come check time. You earned $50 for bringing one item to one person. You made a profit. A fairly nice one at that.
So somebody please explain to me why very high priced, low service requiring items demand a 15% minimum tip.
20% tips and 10% tips tend to balance out to produce a 15% average.
Ender24 -
A high class restaurant produces a higher class of service. Whereas a server at Denny’s might have 15 tables and be happy to get 2-3$ off each table, a server at a fine dining restaurant probably has no more than 2-3 tables at a time. The tables also stay a long time, it takes a lot longer to serve drinks, appetizers, salads, entrees, desserts, after dinner coffees etc than to plunk down a couple of Grand Slam breakfasts.
So, a server at a fine dining place should provide excellent and attentive service throughout the duration of a 2 hour meal. The higher the check, the higher the quality of service.
I’m a bit confused as to why you think that a waiter in a fine dining establishment will offer you “low service” considering all of the work they must perform for such a table. From the wine presentation, to carefully arranging your napkin on the arm of your chair if you get up to go to the bathroom or using one of those fancy little scrapers to get rid of every bread crumb between courses, there’s a reason such servers are hired to work at a high class restaurant, they are excellent servers.
Have you actually BEEN to a fine dining restaurant? If you’re going to tip 10% at a top quality restaurant on a large bill, I would advise never returning to that restaurant. I doubt that anyone would do anything as disgusting as spit in your food, but you will be given the bare minimum of service in preference of other tables. Why waste time on a low 50.00 when another table might leave you 150.00?
And once again, as a former waitress, I wouldn’t have done it if I hadn’t have made really good money doing it. The work is really hard and demanding and stressful (even more demanding and stressful for a continuous 5-6 hours at a time than my current job in corporate life).
If they decide to abolish tipping and introduce some sort of flat rate for servers, I would predict the quality of service will drop. I remember when I was waiting tables, we had a regular who thought I was a great waitress. After a few visits, she tried to persuade me to come work for her catering company, providing service to fancy black tie events. I asked her what the compensation was, and I think she said 6 bucks an hour, no tips (this was back in 1990 or so). I politely declined, since there was no way I would wait tables for that amount.
See my answer above, it may be different at different resturants. We’ll have to see if one of them chime in.