Doesn’t everyone know that you should always respect someone more if they have a piece of cloth tied around their neck? A tie is a symbol that someone is very serious.
The person who wears sweatpants & a ratty t-shirt everywhere is just as bad as the person who insists on wearing a suit or fancy dress to everything. There is quite the range of presentable options in between, it’s not like the choice is one or the other. One can look perfectly respectable in jeans and a t-shirt.
I’m assuming that you’re including yourself in the ‘everyone else’, and therefore that’s your view.
Yes, anyone is entitled to think anything they want. My OP is about not being required to wear a suit in a restaurant. You seem to have extrapolated from there to ‘rebellious sartorial choices’ and the aforementioned ‘douchebag’ etc. I wasn’t thinking of anything as extreme as those epithets seem to suggest.
As Eyebrows 0f Doom correctly says
For better or for worse, the day of the suit is simply over. Those of us who appreciate a nice suit are now in the same category as people who think that smoking should be allowed indoors. It’s basically a fossil, a relic of the past, and something that very soon will only be seen in old black and white movies, and children will ask their parents, “why is that man dressed like that?”
Whether you like it or not, the suit is as dead as the diplodocus. I realized this when I went to an extremely upscale hotel for the wedding of one of my friends, last year, and saw a million people wandering around the premises in Colts jerseys, cargo shorts and flip-flops. That was really the turning point for me.
Those of us who like suits are going to have to just quietly accept the takeover of fashion by the schlub. If you say anything about it, you’re a pretentious elitist jerk, so just keep your mouth shut. That’s my advice, anyway.
Hear, hear!
I had a coworker who bitched that the client avoided him. Well, maybe if he hadn’t gone to a factory in three-piece suits, the guys in blue overalls and white labcoats wouldn’t have mistaken him for the mortgage guy, duh.
In my last client, there were people who’d come M-Th in suits, sometimes with vests, then on “casual Friday” in falling-off-at-the-ass jeans and a white tee so old it was translucid. You’re in a managerial position, often have meetings with the big kahunas, and so come in suits? Fine by me. But why is it then ok to have a meeting with those same big kahunas in rippy jeans and an old rag, just because it’s Friday? Color me confused.
Damn slines.
I’m going to a yearly “invitation only” charity event this weekend that’s popularly known as “The Martini Party.”
Cocktail/evening attire is expected. Suits for men, and “dressy” dresses/heels for women.
Only a jackass wouldn’t wear a suit to this event. This will be my 3rd time attending, and I’ve never seen any man in anything but a suit. Or a woman in anything but cocktail/evening attire. And there are hundreds of people who attend.
If you don’t want to wear a suit, or you don’t want to wear a cocktail dress, DON’T GO. I have similar feelings about other formal events. I don’t see what’s so terrible about expecting people to dress to a certain level of formality. It’s not soul-crushing; it’s not absurd or ridiculous or “old-school.”
It’s simple, ageless courtesy.
The same applies to the OP’s restaurant/club. If you don’t want to wear what’s polite, expected, and (in certain places) often required, then feel free not to go. If you go in Dockers or shorts and a polo shirt, and then you get turned away/stared at/whatever, that isn’t anybody’s fault but yours.
My compliments to the very eloquent OP, who has defended his position in a manner befitting a gentleman.
Personally I’m torn on the issue. I tend err on the side of caution dress-code wise, but this is largely in part because I enjoy dressing up. The fancier the event, the more fun for me.
I think to some degree the demand to meet a particular dress code has overtones of classism. Some people can’t afford a suit. My Dad couldn’t for my wedding, and at that time we didn’t have the money to get him one either. I really didn’t feel any disrespect.
My husband’s Dad’s side of the family is very wealthy and they have strict expectations for dress code. When his grandparents took us on vacation with them to Europe, they expected me to purchase three new formal gowns and one suitable for a black tie event. We could afford it at the time so we had fun with it, but even a year hence we wouldn’t have been able to. The same style of dress is required, by the way, at Christmas and Thanksgiving with Grandma and Grandpa. My husband, as a result of years of being made to wear a suit and tie as a child at family functions, is extremely anti-dress code and refuses to ever force our children to wear fancy clothes.
I think there is a middle ground, and it sounds like NineToTheSkyis striking it.
Slightly on topic:
My mother in law insists on wearing a suit when she flies on an airplane.
Its weird because I don’t think this was the norm at any time during her life. I guess she learned it from her mother or something.
If you point out that no one else is wearing a suit, she’ll tell you, I kid not:
- “Just because everybody else jumped off a cliff, would you do so as well?”
- It is childish to “worry about fashion” (her words) when formal occasions are involved.
The key words here are “invitation only” and “expected.” This event isn’t open to just any yahoo with the money to buy a ticket. Presumably, the invitees are drawn from a group of people who have something (besides the party) in common such that it’s reasonable to assume that they’d like to attend a formal-dress event. I’d imagine that the invitation specifies formal dress or evening wear as well.
A restaurant, on the other hand, is open to the public. The management may require that guests make a reservation so they don’t have seating or supply issues, but they neither extend invitations nor restrict attendance to the properly invited.
No, a restaurant is a private business. I believe they can set any restrictions on their customers, as long as it’s not one of the illegal reasons for discrimination (race, etc).
I dress for weddings by wearing what I think the bride and groom would like me to wear or based on the invitation/venue information. I dress for parties based on the formality of the invitation or by asking the hosts. I dress for events based on the dress expectations listed in the invitation/announcement, or by the “feel” of the event. I have no problem dressing formally when the situation requires it. (The exception to this is skirts. I will wear dress slacks, suit pants or adjust to the formality of the occasion, but I don’t do skirts. I’d rather not go than wear a dress.)
I dress for restaurants based on the stated dress code- so, if a restaurant wants me to dress up, I’ll avoid it if I can and dress according to the code if I can’t. If possible, I always check reviews online before trying a new place, so there are generally no surprises. There’s no way, though, that I’m dressing up if the place doesn’t state a dress code. I’ll be neat and hygienic, like always, but I’m not changing what I wear to conform to the expectations of another random diner. If the venue doesn’t care, why would the other patrons? Perhaps they’d be more comfortable in a place with a dress code.
Another thing I’ve just thought of. I’ve been to restaurants where other patrons are wearing suits, and some of them may be wearing worn, dirty suits with shirts and ties that don’t match, and overall have a very dishevelled appearance. I don’t object to anyone else wearing suits, but I am sometimes rather taken aback by the lack of care that a person has put into his appearance. I’d rather see - and be - smartly casual than scruffily formal.
Dressing well used to be considered a pleasure and a badge of adult taste. Suits and such used to be built to last years, and to pretty much live in. That died out: adulthood got stale and taste got dumbed down. Suits became uncomfortable uniforms made mostly for looks. Dressing well gave way to dressing up. It became something you do because it’s expected, not something to take any pride in unless you’re flaunting your self-importance.
You’re confusing “private property” with “private club.” The building in which a business (such as a restaurant) is located is private property - it’s owned by an individual or a corporation and not by the government. The business, unless it’s constituted as a members-only club, is considered a place of public accomodation.
Private clubs are generally permitted to make and enforce any rules they want with regard to attendance (formal wear only, no blue jeans, nudity mandatory after sunset, etc.). Private clubs may discriminate in ways that are forbidden to public accomodations (no black members, women as junior members only, attendees must speak Swahili when inside the club, etc.).
Public accomodations may set reasonable restrictions on attendance (jackets and neckties for men, no one admitted if intoxicated, shoes must be worn, etc.), but generally may not refuse service based on a customer’s race, religion, gender, and so forth.
I did not assert that a restaurant cannot or ought not set restrictions. I asserted that in the absence of a stated dress code, there is no reason that the customer ought to feel obligated to wear formal or semi-formal dress.
Excellent point. If my suit, dress shirts, and dress shoes were anywhere near as comfortable and as easy to care for as the stuff I actually wear, they’d get more use. But they aren’t comfortable and they’re expensive and inconvenient to maintain.
The downside to living in a semi-tropical area is that it’s simply too hot to wear a suit most of the time.
I believe in dressing well (you should see some of the stuff people wear to Uni- it’s like they jumped into a skip full of clothing, swam around randomly, then climbed out and went about their day with whatever was on their person), but I’ve never been really comfortable in a suit & tie. I’ll do a “young professional” suit sans tie, but when I started missing out on jobs for being too overdressed for interviews because I wore a shirt and tie(!) I switched to a “Business Casual” look for most of my “professional” work and “jeans and a nice collared shirt” for Dinners Out, with a couple of Trendy Shirts for going to a show or something that might be considered a Social Event.
It bothers me when I’ve made the effort to wear something decent and half the rest of the people there are in jandals, footy shirts, and a pair of ratty jeans, though. It drags the tone of the whole event down, IMHO.
There are some people who can “dress down” and wear footy shirts to a Dinner Out and make it work. But most people just look like they either can’t be bothered making an effort- and I’ve certainly had evenings out derailed because someone wore their Footy or Racing shirt and crappy jeans out and didn’t meet the dress code of wherever we were planning on having dinner or drinks, so it’s not just a case of “You look like shit”, it’s a case of “You look like shit and you’re buggerising everyone else’s evening because of it.”
Personally, I’m waiting for the Zoot Suit to come back. Classy, retro, and stylish, IMHO. 
You can lose a job for being overdressed now?
Fucksticks!
I hate formal wear.
I will wear it for personal occasions. This is a visible sign of my devotion to the celebrants (or the deceased).
I go to restaurants for the food. What I wear is irrelevant.
I go to the theater for the performance. What I wear is irrelevant.
I can go to the Museum Of Art and see Van Gogh’s Rain (View From The Asylum Window) in jeans and t-shirt.
Most of the important religious experiences in my life have happened while I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
Jeans and a t-shirt are good enough for G-d and Van Gogh. Who the hell do you think you are?
I also reject the idea that jeans and a t-shirt mean I do not ‘take pride in my appearance’. There is a world of difference between a well accessorized, wrinkle free, stain free, well fitting jeans and a t-shirt and the outfit I throw when everything else is in the wash.
ETA
I will also meet an employer’s dress code. Because they pay me to do so.
I don’t know about that; there are still social situations where a suit is appropriate and expected. For instance, when I’m heisting a bank or facing off with an obsessive Major Crimes Investigations detective, I find wearing a well-cut dark suit to give me a useful bit of gravitas, and also helps me conceal my M4 carbine and Sig P220 from prying eyes. I prefer the peaked lapel, which is becoming harder to find.
I also own a dinner jacket and kit, which has come in useful a few times when I’ve been called to a formal dinner to steal top secret documents or knock off some opprobrious dignitary. The cummerbund comes particularly in handy in concealing weapons and documents. I find the entire ensemble is quite comfortable under a drysuit, although it usually needs a good pressing afterward.
Stranger