Roland, I also love life and enjoy it greatly. It doesn’t mean I don’t suffer from clinical depression and it didn’t stop me from winding up flat on my back in the hospital when I didn’t seek treatment for it. Indeed, the people I’ve known who have clinical depression tend to have great senses of humour when they’re not depressed. People who know a thing or two about mental illness have recommended you seek help. What would you do if one of your patients refused to seek treatment for an ailment they don’t believe they have even though they’re showing several symptoms of it?
Woo boy. I’m jumping on this trainwreck early, 'cause I can’t keep my mouth shut. And since it is the pit.
God damnit I’m sick and fucking tired of the anti-choice assholes out there who insist on comparing abortion to the Holocaust. Hedging your comparison by saying it doesn’t “quite” approach the magnitude of the Holocaust is equally as offensive. I have to say, I’ve met many a person opposed to abortion who I’ve managed to have many intelligent and reasoned conversations with, and I respect their opinion. I DO NOT respect the zealots who jump aboard the choice, between a woman and her body. The Holocaust was the organizeBÏânocide of millions of people (people, mind you, not lumps of cells with the potential to be people). IMHO, you’re not better than those assholes who stand outside universities, family planning and abortion clinics with pictures of dead fetuses.
And, you expect to work in the Health Care profession when you hold these extremist views? I certainly hope you never work anywhere where you might come close to a woman who needs to make this decision.
Here is the analogy like it or not. If the year was 1943 and a Nazi SS member in Berlin said “I cannot stand all of these people who fake injuries to avoid having to fight in the war.” I would not have much respect for his opinion. He is a genocidal zealot bent on destroying much of humanity, in the context of his idelogy those who fake injuries to avoid serving their country would seem to trivial to consider.
In the same way I have a hard time getting upset at those who cheat on computer science programs when many of their professors endorse a practice that I believe to be so evil that it removes them from the ranks of civilized humans.
By the way I passed my most challenging compentencies this week and the instructor said that I did one of the best jobs in the class. It is likely that I will maintain my number one ranking (or at least stay in the top five) and go on to graduate. Since I’ve already taken several NCLEX pretests and scored higher than my wife (who just took the real test and passed with only 85 questions) it is likely that I will go on to become a nurse. Thus, I respectively request that those of you have been insulting kiss my ass.
I consider abortion for reasons other than the life of the mother to be the organized, legalized slaughter of innocent babies. How can someone believe that babies are being legally slaughtered and not believe that it is one of the greatest wrongs in human history? How many millions die each year? What is worse it strikes the poor and minorities to a disproportionate degree. Indeed, it is hard to research the history of Margaret Sanger and others and not to conclude that their support of abortion was largely grounded in their desire to have a society based on their definition of “eugenics” not unlike the Nazis.
Of course some of you may point out that “two wrongs don’t make a right” and on this I have to agree. Cheating is not morally acceptible behavior either. However, it is the righteous “tone” of those who condemn the practice that I oppose in light of the great crimes against humanity represented by abortion.
It never ceases to amaze me how the uneducated masses persist on using Nazi Germany as an analogy for anything, in light of their evident lack of understanding of the history.
It’s not a matter of “like it or not”. Your analogy is spurious and inflammatory, and completely idiotic to boot.
As for your last paragraph… which practice are the professors endorses that is so evil? Are you talking about abortion again? I’m so confused.
And thus, I quote my favourite pro-choice argument.
How incredibly enlightened of you, from your pulpit of moral authority, to declare the destruction of a fetus “legalized slaughter”. I’m certain that you must have some alternative arrangement in place for women who find themselves pregnant? And don’t quote that bullshit “they can just give it up for adoption” argument. Until you’re willing to give up 9 months of your life, completely altering your body and affecting your ability to work in the last month, only to give a way a child you may or may not find yourself attached to as a result of hormones or whatever, you have no right to demand this of women you don’t even know.
If you love all the babies that are being slaughtered so very much, may I suggest you take them all on? How about supporting the mom who can’t afford the kid. $20,000 a year should do it. And while you’re at it, be sure to put some money aside so jr. can go to school.
All the zealots (not the regular, run-of-the-mill folks opposed to abortion) seem to love the damn fetuses so much, but don’t give a shit about them once they are born.
Tell me, Roland. Where is your educational background in the Eugenics policy of Nazi Germany or eugenics in general? Are you aware of social theory and history prior to the genocide?
You know there are a lot of Jews here, right? One is my wife. You aren’t making any friends with your “abortion is almost like the Holocaust” bullshit. Oh, I forgot, you’re an individualist. Well go be an individualist somewhere else, we don’t like you.
I think Roland is suffering from a common delusion I find to be prevalent amoungst extremists, whatever stripe they are. Taking things out of context or disregarding completely context. Nuance and research are not the friends of these extremists.
The anti-choice information you’ve gotten and which you are now spewing on this board is completely wrong about Ms. Sanger. I enourage you to learn a little history before you start fucking around with comparing someone who has had such a profound effect on the lives of women to Nazis.
And, frankly, the previous poster is correct. The fact that you would co-opt the tragedy of the Holocaust for your own rhetorical purpose is disgusting and won’t win you any friends here. If you legitimately want to pursue an open dialogue, PLEASE do some research before you post like a fucking moron. (this is the pit right? I can say that?)
Few things are cooler than a four year old and the impact you can have on the adult he will some day be. One day he will not be pulling on your arm and you may miss his eagerness to interact with you. Compared to your son, the SDMB aint shit. Why not step away from the 'puter and play with him?
No the connection is better stated as “many of the people who protest the ethical shortcomings of cheating are also pro-choice.” I am suggesting that it is difficult for me to understand their “moral” tone about something that is comparitively small potatos relative to the killing of innocents.
Also, I don’t buy this modern “PC” notion that the Holocaust and the Nazis who fostered it cannot be alluded to in order to illustrate other evils. The Holocaust wasn’t just a tradgedy for just one group of people, but rather was a lesson for the whole world. I might have instead said that it would be difficult for me to sympathize with a Hutu that participated in the genocide of Tootsies who also happened to teach a math class and was complaining about his cheating students. Of course for all I know the OP computer science teacher might even be pro-life. I wasn’t talking about his post (which provided the original genesis for this thread), but rather the reaction of many of you (who I know or suspect to be pro-choice from your other posts) with moral indignation at the thought that someone would advocate cheating.
I say that if abortion is a choice then so is cheating and while it is not the best one (for yourself or others) to make it pales in comparison to the choice of killing an innocent life. Furthermore, if I am to refrain from judging those who have chosen to terminate the life in their wombs often for less than profound reasons, then so to must you refrain from condeming those who have chosen to cheat for reasons which may be profound at least to them (or not).
Yep, we do. Know why? Because we don’t like you. Why do you continue to post things that piss everyone here off and then whine about the results? Do you expect some sort of special treatment? Roland has the right to make absurd, asinine, or offensive statements, and everyone else just has to put up with it? Why are you so unendingly obnoxious if you don’t like being insulted in return?
It’s funny you would pick these two examples, as they’ve been discussed to death here. Actually, at least on the SDMB, virtually no one is opposed to polyamory, and the only reason we don’t wholeheartedly endorse polyamorous marriages is the simple legal difficulties posed by inheritance, divorce and child custody, etc. And the second point has been argued to death; I won’t even bother to sum up the arguments here because a quick glance through GD would help you understand why this is an untenable view.
But you’re not actually interested in discussion or debate. You’re interested in trying to find positions that seem “individualistic” and “non-conformist”. So you start troll threads like this one just in order to get that warm glow of being outrageous. Sweetie, we ain’t outraged yet. Just annoyed. You’re pretty tame and middle-of-the-road when it comes to most people here.
That’s very nice. You won’t do well in the pit. See, in here, the SDMB throws out the normal social restrictions on insulting others. You oughta like that, being such a non-conformist and all.
So stop with the constant fucking whining at the consequences. You act like an obnoxious, pathetic idiot, and everyone else hates you. Either stop doing the first, or accept the second with some modicum of grace, because it’s the consequence of the first.
The reason we laugh at you is because it was such a transparent attempt to try to sound smarter by mentioning the name of someone famous. Turns out we’re familiar with the woman and you’re not. Stop trying to seem smarter than other folks. This is about the only place where I’ve run into people who are smarter than I am; in this circumstance, it behooves you not to try to impress others, because you’ll fail at it clumsily.
Too fucking bad, you whiny little bitch. See, here we have the opportunity to be as mean as we like. Notice that it’s rarely taken. It turns out a lot of people here just don’t like you. That’s because of how you act.
It was a moronic post. We’re not stupid here. Perhaps you were a victim of the public schools’ habit of telling the children that every view deserves to be heard, and everyone’s special, and blah blah blah . . . . Well, Roland, here you’ll be glad to learn that we don’t put much stock in that touchy-feely idiocy. So if you have something to say, that’s fine, but if it’s a moronic waste of my time, I don’t have to be nice in response. We expect folks to have the personal responsibility to decide whether their own views have any value. And no, not every view has value, even if it did ooze out of your head.
(Emphasis mine.) So you got your ass kicked by the “fowl” jokes, you say this again, and you spare “fair” wrong this time? Sorry babe, but even if you’re not going to try to cheat your way through school, you’ve already established that you’re too stupid to succeed in your classes. If this isn’t actually true, then pray explain to us how we’re supposed to determine when you’re being serious and when you’re posting lies just to get a rise out of us? You said it, we believed you (you know, because grown-ups don’t lie when they’re talking about things.) If you don’t like the consequences of lying, stop doing it, fucktard.
Personally, between what you’ve said about your scholastic difficulties, and just your own behavior, it’s clear to me that you’re far too fucking stupid to be a competent medical professional. But competence is a rare trait nowadays. Perhaps I expect too much.
Yeah, that’s what Gitmo’s for. Why, should we look into that?
Jesus, you idiot! Don’t you get it? People here are nice to most everyone else. We just apparently don’t like you. Probably because you’re such an annoying, whiny little bitch. Don’t go around posting lies (at least not ones that make you look bad!) if you don’t want people responding as if they were true. What, you think we have a crack team of investigators to determine whether you’re being honest or just using a moronic sort of rhetorical tool? “Send in the team, guys, we need to see Roland’s grades!”
I mean, what the fuck? What are we supposed to respond to? What you post apparently is sometimes complete lies, sometimes it’s positions you don’t hold (but you want to get a rise out of us anyway) - so how do we know when to take you at face value and when to assume you’re just lying yet again? Why should we have to? Why can’t you argue your points using honest debate techniques like everyone else here? If you have to resort to Rush Limbaugh-style idiocy in order to argue your points, either your points aren’t very good or you’re fucking stupid for GD.
Look. You’ve established on your own that you’re too fucking stupid to be a nurse. So now it’s everyone else’s responsibility to find you a job you’re not too stupid for? What kind of sense does that make? I thought you were a conservative. You know, self-reliance, honest labor, etc. So I guess you only believe in those things for other people; for yourself, you want everything handed to you. How utterly fucking pitiful.
You know, Roland, despite the fact that I don’t like you, I’m rather fond of all these posts filled with you wallowing in self-pity. Know why? Because when you’re sitting around sobbing about how mean everyone here is to you, it’s about the only thing that makes me forget just how pitiful you are. And the funniest part about you is how you’ve created every one of your problems yourself. You’ve obviously gotten into a profession you can’t handle, you’re married to that castrating bitch, and you constantly, constantly say idiotic, obnoxious things, and then start to cry when people respond. I mean, every one of your problems is your own making, so I can just submit to my worst impulses and enjoy your misery.
Good job being a non-conformist, by the way. No doubt any day your strange, foreign ideas will shock us all out of our slumber! (You know, if you start coming up with ones we haven’t already discussed to death. Man, you’re even a pitiful excuse for a non-conformist.)
So now we need to hold hands and dissect the early eugenics movement, which while offensive to us now, was popular at the time. There are two separate branches in the early eugenics movement: one that sought to improve man’s gene pool through selective breeding and one that sought to weed out the undesirables. There is a difference in mindset here, and though both seem equally offensive to us now, the undertanding of these differences is critical in dissecting the radical turn of Margaret Sanger.
The father of Eugenics was Galton. From a New Yorker review of a book on his life: ((link)
and
However, the eugenics movement took a distinctly more ominous turn under Nazi Germany. Like many other ideas popular at the time, Hitler and his ilk took the idea of Eugenics and expanded it, morphing it into a twisted justification for thier policy of racial hygeine.
So, what happens amoungst the idiotic faction of the pro-life wing is that they take the complex and multi-faceted history of the eugenics movement and dumb it down to the common perception of the term, “Eugenics = Nazi”. Margaret Sanger subscribed to some ideal of Eugenics, therefor she was a Nazi. Nazis were racist, therefor Margaret is racist. Nazis=bad, therefor pro-choice=Nazi=bad.
It’s extremely faulty reasoning based on fallacious information, intended to provoke an emotional response in undereducated and reactionary people. They rely on the masses not to know better, and you fell into this trap Roland.
Sorry babe, but even if you’re not going to try to cheat your way through school, you’ve already established that you’re too stupid to succeed in your classes. If this isn’t actually true, then pray explain to us how we’re supposed to determine when you’re being serious and when you’re posting lies just to get a rise out of us? You said it, we believed you (you know, because grown-ups don’t lie when they’re talking about things.) If you don’t like the consequences of lying, stop doing it, fucktard.