I think we just did this over in GD.
http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000821.html
What do I believe in? Not much that isn’t explained by logic and scientific experiment. And, you better believe, I want to see the logic and the laboratory equipment.
–P.J. O’Rourke–
How would you know if they help or give to charities, anyway. Maybe they do. You can’t assume they don’t just because they have nice stuff. That just doesn’t make sense.
so you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts. what’s so amazing about really deep thoughts? Tori Amos
Forgive me if I skipped over someone typing this already…
Just because someone has a lot of expensive possessions doesn’t mean they are wealthy. Most of the time it does, but there are a lot of people that live beyond their means and finance their lifestyles through debt.
Just another point to ponder. As for me, investing while young, frugal spending, careful planning, and a desire to retire really early are more than enough to build up a pretty decent nest egg. I will likely give to charities, but my family (including extended family members) and friends will come first.
You can feel free to call me Mr. Tied for 26th place on the favorite poster’s list.
HO BOY - Melin’s gonna kick some ass over this one.
As for the OP. . . .
I own a home in the country. It isn’t a mansion, but it is fairly nice. I drive a nice car, convertible, just had an awesome stereo system installed. I had a layered patio built that looks like a picture out of Town and Country. There is a part sectioned off for my hot tub and outdoor fireplace. I also have a small spa with workout equipment and tanning bed. Very nice furnishings and appliances. Me and the kids take a “big” vacation every year and smaller ones in-between. I am able to clothe them as well as myself in nice clothes. I have extra to have my nails and hair done. The things I own are nice and above what a lot of people can afford.
NONE OF IT WAS GIVEN TO ME.
I am a single mom of 3 kids. For most of the 9 years of my marriage I was a stay at home mother. I had only a few months of job experience by the time of my divorce. I could have easily taken the easy way out and went on welfare and food stamps but instead made the decision to bust my ass and make the type of lifestyle for me and my kids that I want.
I have worked hard for everything that I have. Not many things piss me off more than having someone, especially other single mothers (my best friend for example), whine about how unfair it is that I have these things while they are barely making ends meet.
I didn’t settle for a dead end, low paying job. I didn’t accept public assistance. I went back to school and worked my ass off to climb that ladder. It was a horrible, sleepless, stressful time, but I made it (and continue to look higher). The difference between me and them is that I was willing to go for it.
Now that I can afford the luxuries no one has the right to tell me that I can’t spend my money any way I please. If I don’t feel like giving part of it to charities or the poor, that is my choice and I shouldn’t feel guilty if I don’t. (This is not the case. I have a certain amount automatically deducted from every pay check to be paid to a couple of charities. I also volunteer with homeless programs on a regular basis.)
If you want to live in a society where others decide how you spend your wages (aside from taxes), move to another country.
>^,^<
KITTEN
Fluff yer hair Beula, I’s feelin frisky - M.S.
Where has it ever been shown that all of those with money have “earned” it? Lots of people with money work hard; many make their money by exploiting others, by theft, by cheating, etc. Pro athletes gain their money by utilizing whatever they like of capitalism while staning along with owners for the socialism of subsidized stadia.
Yes, many people work because they want certain things and many rich do contribute. But while I feel the OP was a little mean-spirited, couldn’t/shouldn’t we, as individuals, think about our possessions? I don’t mean that the government should tell us when we have enough, I mean that sometimes we might need to say that we’re not going to do overtime just to have a nicer car or Old Navy crap if it means less time to spend on relationships, our minds, our souls.
That said, I do wish that people who can afford those high-cost housing “developments” would at least insist on a few trees and better design.
Bucky
P.S. Is the best defense that some can muster of capitalism “if you don’t like it move to another country”?
Hey, if you don’t like racism, move to another country.
If you think American schools afren’t the best in the world, move to another country.
If you don’t like the military-industrial complex, move to another country.
yadda yadda yadda
Bucky
tergivesater1:
I think you mean, ‘debauchery.’
If we are out of our mind, it is for the Lord; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 2Cor.5:13
For the record, I don’t think attorneys are scum of the scum etc…this was meant as a point to make, we all seem to plunk people in some generalism as opposed to seeing the individual for being the individual.
The OP placed all wealthy people in this class of people that have too much and don’t share their wealth. I proposed, based on my own experiences that this is not truth.
Some of my dad’s best buddies are attorneys, each of those men are honest and hard working attorneys, so to those attorney’s out there don’t jump on my case for what I said. It was meant as a means by which to prove a point.
A poor man has never offered me a paying job.
A point in every direction is like no point at all
Damn right.
You don’t like living in a society where the wealthy are not allowed to spend their money as they please?
You don’t like the racist attitude in your town?
You think your children can get a better education in another part of the world?
Then hell yes! Pack your shit and go!
Oh fergodsakes. . . .
I don’t think anyone here is saying that those who have stolen from others have the right to spend the money as they wish. We are talking about people who have earned their money, hell, I’ll even say those who inherit their money or win the lottery. You, me, or the fucking man in the moon has no right to tell these people where to spend their money. If they sit in their mansions eating crepes and honey while the homeless line up at the soup kitchen, that is their option.
Yeah, so? I am not going to get into the pros and cons of whether or not pro-athletes deserve their large paychecks, but I will point out that we, as fans, are willing to fork out big bucks to see them play. You don’t like it? Don’t buy tickets or products endorsed by the athletes.
Sure, that sounds all gooey and sweet, and I agree that money doesn’t buy happiness. Having said that, I will say that money also opens doors that may not otherwise be opened. I have been able to give my kids things that I feel make them more knowledgeable and experienced. They have hiked glaciers in Alaska as well as to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. They have been to Washington DC and experienced the things that they learn about in their American history class. They have walked the pathway next to the Vietnam Memorial Wall and explored Arlington Cemetery and now understand a little better. They have spent time at the Mojave Indian Reservation and learned to respect a culture different than their own. We are heading to Europe this summer.
I have been able to give them piano, guitar, violin, painting, and dance, lessons; football, basketball, soccer, baseball, and boy scouts.
I have also taught them compassion for those who have less. I have taken them to distribute blankets and socks to the homeless in the park, serve in the shelter, and assist at homeless veteran stand downs.
It is bullshit and stereotypical to assume that people with money are materialistic, impersonal, workaholics who don’t spend enough time on their personal relationships. On the same note, there are many impoverished people who need to spend more time on relationships, minds, and souls.
>^,^<
KITTEN
Fluff yer hair Beula, I’s feelin frisky - M.S.
Hey, Diane–don’t like my message? Move to another country!
Is it a better argument NOW?
Bucky
If you don’t think it’s right that individuals (and their families) should do whatever they want with the money they earned, then you are a socialist.
The OP mentioned the priorities of the rich, and that’s really their concern, not yours. On a guttural level, I agree that it sure is frustrating when you’re face to face with opulance when you’re fighting to save up next month’s rent.
I am slowly moving up the economic scale and at some point will have extraneous wealth. I dare someone to tell me I HAVE to give some of it to a charity or poor neighbor. I depise charity. If I wish to donate, it will be 100% choice and good NOT guilt, pity or for the benefit of the social equilibrium.
Good point, Oblio, me neither.
Hell is Other People.
Yo Bucko -
You really have only three choices if you don’t like the fact that the wealthy can spend their money anyway they please (without getting into competency and fiduciary pay issues).
Deal with it.
Get a law passed that forces people to spend their own money in a manner approved by . . . . Me? You? A board who determines how many personal possessions you may own?
Move to a part of the world that better suits your needs.
Simple solution, eh?
>^,^<
KITTEN
Fluff yer hair Beula, I’s feelin frisky - M.S.
This is off topic, I admit, but, Diane said:
Can I come live at your place? I’m housebroken :).
Princess of the Time and Space Continuum since 1969 (upgraded to Goddess 01/07/00)-
OK, we have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart. =^…^=
Actually, Di, I’m not suggesting that the government tell people not to spend their money on baby grands. I’m simply saying that I have lots of options besides dealing with it, getting a law passed, or moving.
I can try to persuade people, here or elsewhere.
I can try to start a revolution.
I can live my life as a shining example of right behavior–whatever that means.
I can bitch bitch bitch.
I can work with people one on one to see options besides material accumulation (or clubbing baby seals, or listening to John Tesh, or whatever).
I would suggest, though, that “move to another country” is, essentially, facist. I’m not accusing you of facism, but if I’m a “socialist” for saying that some rich people have more than they need, then telling me to leave the country is pretty bootjack behavior.
Bucky
What is this “can” business? I’d say you were already doing a good job of that.
Sure, there are rich people who have more money than some small nations and not one iota of civic responsiblity. They’re high profile and anything but admirable. And their preoccupation with wealth is not analogous to the same impulse by the poor. Like the old quote, “The law, with magnificent impartiality, forbids rich and poor alike to steal bread and sleep under bridges”. So there are moral shadings to behavior.
But blanket condemnations of people who have “more”–however “more” is defined in relation to “enough”–is wrong, too. A related topic discussed the whether the rich are idle and “deserve” their wealth. Sure 'nuff, a lot of people inherited their pile and did jack shit to earn it. But who doesn’t want to leave the bulk of their wordly possessions to their children?
The concept of “enough” is personal, and IMO not a swell idea for governmental control. I hasten to add that the OP suggested no such thing; I’m just responding to some responses here.
My personal views are close to Tergie’s, but IMO decisions of “enough” should remain personal. Giving freely is a virtue; confiscation and forced giving robs the act of virtue and is ultimately self defeating anyway.
Veb
Tergi,
I must state that your shot at me on the MPSIMS boards was totally uncalled for. If you have a beef with me, then take in this forum not there…I think you are pissed off at me for stating my opinion on what you said.
If you can’t stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen, but don’t bring up your disdain for my thinking in a message board that is about Mindless Pointless Stuff I Must Share, that was pretty low of you.
Next time, start a new thread on your anger at me or post it here.
Sheesh
Sorry Teacherchick68…just couldn’t help myself, you make such a big target. Are you sure you don’t need Jenny Craig?
“Debauchery” works fine for me Pariah.
I’m not a bulldog, sorry Krispy. Nor am I a bulldyke,sorry Teacherchick…Not that there’s anything wrong with being either.
As for you "America, love it or die types, I’m not advocating communism! I’m not advocating socialism! I’m advocating HUMANISM. Ever hear of it. The fact that so few of you got this message, makes my case.
Beatle, I don’t know whether this rich guy in my OP is a closet charitable person or not. I don’t know him that well. But whether he is or isn’t, isn’t really my point. Your boy, Albert Einstein would understand. He didn’t give a hoot about material things. They had no meaning for him at all. Now we can’t all be AstroFizzissssists and we can’t all be Albert Einstein…especially you Teacherchick, but we all can strive to embrace more of his values.
MY POINT IS SIMPLY THAT TOO MANY RICH PEOPLE SEEM TO GET FAR TOO MUCH STATUS, EGO GRATIFICATION, ENJOYMENT, ETC FROM ACQUIRING MATERIAL THINGS WHICH THEY PROUDLY DISPLAY LIKE A RED BADGE OF COURAGE. WOULDN’T THIS BE AN EVEN GREATER PLACE TO LIVE IF THESE SAME INDIVIDUALS GOT GREATER SATISFACTION OUT OF GIVING THAN GETTING? WOULDN’T THIS BE AN EVEN BETTER PLACE TO LIVE IF THERE WERE MORE “GEORGE BAILEYS” IN THE WORLD?
terggie
terggie,
No offense was intended. I was just asking if you had been a student at MUHS since your family lives in the area. Your mention of West Milton caught my attention since I’ve never come across any other SDer familiar with this area in which I live…So, I take it that you didn’t live here?..just curious…and feel free to ignore if it’s too personal of a question…
Krispy Original – voted SDMB’s 19th most popular poster (1999)