Yeah, it’s totally credible for the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States to front money to this guy just out of the goodness of their hearts. I’m sure there is no agenda.
I haven’t read each of the “188 cited studies” you linked to. I’m not sure how 188 is important in proving that moderate drinking is healthy, unless its compared to a number of studies that show it isn’t. Additionally, claiming that “moderate drinking is healthy” doesn’t mean anything. Are we saying that its healthy in relation to abstinence or in relation to heavy use? Remember too that there are specific guidelines for what is defined as moderate, so when discussing moderate drinking, we should all be coming from the same definition.
Regardless, in the context of the OP, there are harm reduction programs she can research, but in my experience a return to moderate drinking after a long history of heavy use is extremely challenging. Not impossible, of course, it’s just a matter of how you want to spend your time and energy.
um…I clearly said “IMO”. That means “in my opinion”. And no, there are no cites either way for how many people in the history of the world who were once addicted to alcohol continued to drink their whole lives and died that way. Sorry to disappoint.
AA is for people who have decided that their drinking has made their lives unmanageable and want support from a community of people who have been there and can tell them first-hand how they are putting their own lives back together.
It is not for people who want someone to tell them how to learn to drink in "normal’ way.
The fact you ask about abstainers vs. moderate drinkers vs. heavy drinkers shows you haven’t even glanced at the site.
Power, C., et al. U-shaped relation for alcohol consumption and health in early adulthood and implications for mortality. The Lancet, 1998, 352, 9131.
Rodriguez-Artalejo, F., et al. Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, 2001, 55, 648-652; Norton, A. Any Alcohol in Moderation May Boost Health: Study, Reuters Health, August 16, 2001.
Green, C.A. and Polen, M.R. The health and health behaviors of people who do not drink alcohol. American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 2001, 21(4), 298-305.
Those are just three I picked out. There are more on the link, but I have little reason to suspect you’ll actually care to look. Is it your contention that The Lancet, The Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, and American Journal of Preventive Medicine (among dozens of others) are in the pocket of the liquor industry?
I really don’t get where you’re coming from. In one post you rail about the “big business” of alcohol recovery and your perception of misinformation surrounding it. Yet, at the same time reject a page of legitimate articles showing benefits to moderate consumption.
And about spouses and drinking, my ex who lives with me bought one of those six packs that has 16 oz. cans. Then there were 2 other 16 oz. cans. I was sure that would ensure that my expensive beer wouldn’t be touched and he’d be set for a day or two. Got home this morning, they’re all gone and I think he drank one of my expensive beers…
No disappointment here. My posts are education-based and I expect they are relatively accurate. Do some research. Mayo Clinic, National institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Hazelden Treatment Center are good sources. There are many others.
To the OP, wishing you well.
I know in other posts that you don’t particularly want him there, but (per your description) if you are hosting another hard drinker at your house your behaviors will tend to reinforce each other. This is not going to assist you in any way with changing your dysfunctional drinking, if anything it makes it 10 times harder.
Because if you’re participating in AA, your drinking is not in any way shape or form anything that someone might consider normal. It’s not about the volume or quantity, it’s about the effect it has on you. AA, in the Big Book, challenges you to drink like a “normal” person, with control and restraint. If you can do that, AA isn’t really for you.
AA is the end of the road. Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. There’s a reason that is Step 1.
Just wanted to commiserate with Wesley Clark. I used to be able to drink a bottle of red wine by my self*, but then suddenly, RWH. Just within the last year or so. I can have maybe a small glass at tastings, but any more than that and I will have to spend the next day in a dark, quiet room.
*Not like, chug it or anything, but over the course of a whole evening/dinner
[QUOTE=Trom]
I really don’t get where you’re coming from. In one post you rail about the “big business” of alcohol recovery and your perception of misinformation surrounding it. Yet, at the same time reject a page of legitimate articles showing benefits to moderate consumption.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t see the relevance. It’s my opinion that the OP doesn’t need information on the health benefits of moderate drinking. It has nothing to do with what she’s dealing with. If she were able to easily drink within the guidelines of moderate drinking, she would have done so by now, since she expressed that she wishes not to drink the way she is currently (and has historically been) drinking. You believe “moderate drinking has health benefits” means what to someone who is currently addicted to alcohol?
And yes, I do find it odd that the author could not find one other soul to back his project besides the Distilled Spirits Council. I’m not sure about fair and balanced either, since I would think a bunch of studies pointing to the health risks of consuming alcohol would not be endorsed by the DSC. but I’m sure the author doesn’t even have contact with them any more. It was just that one time back in 1997 when he was getting started. He didn’t even inhale, you know…
My reference to recoveryism was in response to tethered kites post stating that not only do
mid- to late-state alcoholics not experience fear as non-alcoholics do, but it’s also a sad fact that most of the people who become alcoholics die practicing alcoholics. I find both of those statements to be unfounded. And as I said, IMO, it’s a regurgitation of propaganda by the recovery industry. Yeah, of course it’s next to impossible to end an addiction…keep comin’ back…ch-ching.
Really, the worst thing is that I believe statements like that keep people addicted. Not only are they not true, they are hardly sentiments of hope.
[QUOTE=tethered kite]
Do some research.
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Oh yeah, let me start with Hazelden Treatment Center because they have no interest in the business of recovery. Oh please…
I would describe my former drinking habits as being much like yours, want2befree. I’d go through periods where I’d try to cut down, try to not go to the store, etc. Didn’t work. It scared me to think about giving up alcohol.
I quit about 3.5 years ago by going through an outpatient program. Although the program leader was a diehard AA member and strongly encouraged participation in an AA group, it just never resonated with me. I think it was the insistence that I brand myself forever as alcoholic instead of letting it be something that was in my past and that I’ve moved beyond.
In retrospect, I don’t really know what I was scared of about quitting. My life is immeasurably better without the alcohol. I have more energy, my mental health is WAY improved, I feel better, don’t have to waste mental energy worry about whether there’s enough wine in the house to get me through the evening, etc. I haven’t even attempted to test drinking in moderation because I don’t think I can and I don’t want to find out the hard way.
My point is that you sound a lot like me a few years ago. I couldn’t quit on my own. You might need help, and there’s a lot available, including non-12-step options. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who regretted quitting drinking.
Girlundone and your model of recovery consists of what?
AA believes drinkers are compelled to drink, that drinking moderately only leads to the compulsion to drink more. Under that model, it is black and white, one stops drinking to end the compulsion to drink.
Actually, my experience with ending my own addiction to alcohol, benzos, and later nicotine, is similar to what freckafree described. It is not only possible, but more common than people may think, to end an addiction independent of recovery groups, treatment centers, or 12 step models. Getting by “one day at a time” without drinking is not my cup o’ tea. Neither is sitting in church meeting rooms with a bunch of people I have nothing in common with except something I used to do a decade ago. I’ve given it up for good, close to 10 years ago. My abstinence is not contingent on spiritual fitness, meeting attendance, or a higher power, on purpose. That way it’s not subject to change in the event of an absence of any of those things. Being abstinent based on certain conditions makes it tenuous, for me anyway.
I only read Jack Trimpey’s work after I ended my alcohol/benzo addiction, but it interested me because it sounded exactly how I had quit on my own. He’s a crackpot weirdo (IMO), but the technique has been effective for many.
I’d like to see the addicted population offered education and choices beyond what is offered now, which is generally just a 12 step solution. I’d also like to see the message change from “You can’t quit on your own” or “It’s too hard” to “Although you are addicted, you are not stupid. You are capable and I believe in your ability”.
[QUOTE=stoplight]
AA believes drinkers are compelled to drink, that drinking moderately only leads to the compulsion to drink more. Under that model, it is black and white, one stops drinking to end the compulsion to drink.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, one works the steps, and has a spiritual awakening as a result of that, and then the compulsion to drink is lifted. Sobriety is maintained through spiritual fitness and one has only a daily reprieve from the compulsion.
I would agree that complete abstinence is the only 100% effective way to end an addiction.
Ruthlessly record every ounce of alcohol you consume for a week. Then begin to drink one ounce less the next time you drink. Sounds not so hard right? If you screwup and go over, start again.
If nothing else, it will be an object lesson in if you control it, or it controls you. Who’s the slave? Who’s the master? Not for nothing does AA make people admit they are powerless to control this in their lives.
It might help to remind yourself if any other person or thing exerted this much control over your life, a boyfriend or boss, an in law or neighbour, you’d fight against it with all your might till your dying breath. You need to get angry at being enslaved first, I think.
Being granted the clarity to recognize that you are standing on a dangerous precipice, is not granted to many in life. Most just end up falling into the pit, without ever having a threshold moment. It seems you are being given a gift. An opportunity unlikely to be proffered twice. Choose very carefully what you next step towards, I beg of you.
I wish you Good Luck. I think you can do this thing. But first you gotta step up.
Working the steps and how in depth one goes is subjective as is the sponsor one chooses to help them work the steps. One can go through the motions of the steps , not feel emotionally attached to the process and still get sober. Spirituality is also subjective. God is used as an example but calling your higher power God is not required to any extent and certainly not required for sobriety. Fellowship, sharing, giving back, realizing there are others with similar issues also helps one achieve sobriety. It is not as simple as you have described.
