Sharon & Julie are driving home from a day trip to a nearby lake and resort community. It’s during the week, during regular working hours - Sharon is driving and Julie is the passenger.
They are travelling on a secondary highway with a posted speed limit of 100 KPH. Sharon comes to a marked construction zone and slows down to 89 KPH. Highway regulations in their area are that in a marked construction zone the maximum speed is 60 KPH, with fines doubling if there are workers present.
Sharon is stopped by the police and given a $730ish fine for speeding through a construction zone with workers present.
Neither Sharon or Julie remember seeing a speed limit sign noting the 60 KPH limit, nor do they remember seeing any workers.
I was in a carpool a few years ago. This particular car pool, the same person drove every day. (It was a special program where our employer gave us use of a 12 passenger van.) We debated at length, if the driver ever got a ticket, should we all split the cost.
The argument being, since we’re not taking turns driving and sharing the risk, should we offer to pay?
I car pool most days. No one has gotten a ticket so far but fuck them if they do: not my problem, and we go through a lot of construction zones on the 100 mile drive.
I think one should only offer to pay (or help pay) if one’s presence makes it more likely that the driver will drive excessively fast or fail to pay attention to construction signs.
So I can see an argument that the people in the twelve passenger van should help pay, even if no one ever explicitly said that the driver should go faster, or fussed about their important meetings.
But I don’t think that if I were the passenger I would offer to pay, and I wouldn’t expect it of my passenger.
I once had to break in a new employee on her first road trip. When she got pulled over for speeding, I not only didn’t offer to split the fine, I had to break it to her that the company wouldn’t consider it a legitimate expense, either.
I had one of my direct reports try to claim a parking ticket - he parked illegally because he was running late for an appt.
Yeah, sorry, that’s not going to be signed off on.
The only way the passenger needs to offer is if they asked the driver to speed or if they gave bad advice on the speed limit.
In the case of the company van - in the normal course of things, sorry - driver responsible. UNLESS it is discussed and agreed ahead of time - "Hey fellahs, I will be sticking to the speed limit - if you all want to get to work earlier, I will speed, but only if the resulting ticket is shared.
Friendship? Karma? Obligation because of being the passenger, not driver? Dunno really - the scenario was posed to me before I posed it to you. It is a real scenario though.
Just to add a few points of clarification, Sharon and Julie are good friends that were on a pleasure trip - they were not travelling for work. They are both ladies in their mid-sixties, reasonably well heeled, neither is going to be out on the street from paying the bill.
Except for the construction this scenario happened to me.
On a return trip from NH the driver was going approx 90 in a 55. I was the only passenger and had asked her wasn’t she afraid of getting a ticket; she said no because she had a radar detector.
She was pulled over and receive a ticket with what I thought at the time was a huge fine (over $300.) I never offered to pay any ;although she asked and was very snotty about it when I refused.
My feeling is if you do the crime you do the time. I did not ask her to drive fast. Also neither of us had any reason to return home quickly. If I am not driving it is not my responsibility to even look at the road signs unless I am requested to be the navigator (before GPS.)
I would testify as a witness as to whether the speed limit was marked or whether workers were present, but unless we had agreed to split speeding ticket costs in advance, I would not contribute financially. I’d perhaps return to the area and collect corroborating photographic evidence.
I’ve received quite a few speeding tickets, and would never dream of accepting a passenger’s offer to pay any portion (not that I’ve ever received such an offer).
Out of curiosity, what country gives out $730 speeding tickets? You used kph, so I am assuming you are not in the US, so what is that fine in US dollars?
Yeah. If the fines are that high (assuming this is US dollars) why the hell would you risk speeding, especially if you didn’t need to be someplace in a hurry?
If Sharon got a DUI, should Julie help pay the fines and attorney’s fees? I think that you would agree not.
So why the same with a different driving violation? I’m assuming that some seem to be of the opinion that speeding tickets are a natural fact of life and that it is just the cost of driving. And since the two are on a common pleasure trip, sharing speeding tickets is no different than sharing the costs of gas or hotel rooms.
Although I am sympathetic to the idea that some speed limits and speed traps are unfair, I disagree that as a whole, speeding fines are the cost of driving. Many millions are able to drive and obey speed laws. My 60 year old mother has never been pulled over in her entire life, and has been driving since age 16. My father never received a speeding ticket in his life, nor did either of my grandfathers.
In fact, in 1994 I was probably the first person in my direct line of descent to ever receive a speeding ticket and it was because I was driving a friend’s car that the speedometer was perpetually stuck on “0.”
Most U.S. states double the fine for speeding in an active construction zone. Depending how fast you were going, that could amount to an extremely large fine. Also, a quick check shows Illinois adds $375 for the first offense, and $1000(!) for a second.
I believe the speeding was inadvertent - Sharon did slow down somewhat - to 89KPM. I expect she would have been going ~ 110KPH before the construction zone, as that is fairly typical on this stretch of roadway.
I agree, although I’m not sure the ticket was unfair in this situation.
None of the passengers have any control over where the gas pedal is being held in relation to the floor.
My only speeding ticket to date (12 years of driving FWIW) was $350 and 3 demerit points. It was a big one and it sucked. The passengers were all good friends and were offering to help pay since the fine was so high. I refused on moral grounds for the simple fact that my poor judgement/decision making need not burden my friends financially, whether it’s a $350 or a $10 parking ticket. Driver makes those choices.