Speeding ticket

The BBQ Pit
1

Let’s keep it short.

My friend was telling me today about how he got a speeding ticket the other day. 63 in a 45. Our conversation went like this:

Him: “Yeah, and I’m so not guilty.”
Me: “How fast were you going?”
Him: “Well, 63… but you know that if you can prove any of the guy’s equipment is the least bit faulty in any respect, you can get the case thrown out.”
Me: “But you were really doing 63 in a 45?”
Him: “Yeah, but that’s not the point. Why should I pay the ticket if I don’t have to?”

BECAUSE YOU FUCKING BROKE THE LAW. Ugh. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen people try to weasel out of tickets of this nature. Hell, there’s a whole bunch of websites out there devoted to telling you how you can get out of situations like this. There used be an infomercial on tv, for Christ’s sake.

You were well aware of the speed limit. You knew the consequences of getting caught speeding. You should be willing to pay up. Hell, I usually disregard the speed limit signs as well, but you know what? If I was caught speeding, I’d at least have the balls to pay it up. It’s the law.

Dumbass.

2

Wellllllllllllllllllllll…
yes and no.

While I completely support the job that a police officer does, I also support the right of citizens to use any legal means possible to avoid punishment by the law. What’s the use in having rights if we’re unwilling to employ them for our benefit?

3

You have no right to drive, it’s a privilege. A privilege you are granted under the agreement that you will abide by all laws governing driving.

Let’s say there’s a 6 year old child who wants a cookie. The mother says “no, if you try to get a cookie, you will be spanked.” The mother leaves the room. The 6 year old disobeyes, reaches for the cookie jar, and it crashes to the ground and shatters. The mother returns, and it is quite obvious what happened, depsite her lack of presence. The child could’ve gotten away with it, but was caught. By your logic, the child shouldn’t be punished.

4

Yes, driving is a privilege, and should you be proven to have broken the law in regards to driving, then you should pay the fine. But, the way our justice system works, the officer must prove that your friend broke the law. If there is faulty equipment, or some other inconsistency in the officers story, then the case is not proven.
Comparing this to a kid taking a cookie is not the same. As a parent, I make the rules, I enforce the rules and I decide what the punishment is. I have much leeway in deciding guilt of my child.

5

Hmm. Well, my reasoning is that as an honest person, I’d personally feel obligated to pay up if I was caught. I’d have known the rules, and I would’ve broken them. My rant was more about how people feel the need to cheat the system, then expect it to work flawlessly.

Erm, no. Guilt is not a gray area. You’re either guilty of something or you’re not. You don’t decide guilt, your child’s actions do.

6

If you were an honest person, you wouldn’t be breaking the law in the first place.

7

I don’t think that necessarily indicates dishonesty… perhaps it’d be better stated as, “as a person who would realize that I got caught making a mistake I knew damn well I was making”. How’s that?

8

That is good that you would feel obligated to pay the fine. But the law says it needs to be proven. If you can get out of it on a technicality, the police need to do a better job. I’ll admit, I have never gotten a ticket that I didn’t deserve, but I went to court for them and payed reduced fines because of it, or better yet, a donation to some charity and the charge was dropped, which saved me hundreds on insurance.
Your right, guilt is not a gray area in most cases. The point I was trying to make is a parent doesn’t have to follow certain protocal as to how the cookies are cleaned up, did you use the proper sized broom, are all the bristles in place… I just put her in her room and hope there are some cookies left for me.

9

Well what if you think the speed limits are a pile of crap?

I’ve gotten one ticket in my life (70 in a 55) and while I didn’t argue or whine about it (hey, I knew what would happen if I got caught) I still felt that the whole situation was bullshit. Everyone else was doing 70 and to go slower would be making yourself a traffic hazard. Not to mention that where the speed trap was set up was about 200 yards away from a merge area with another highway where the speedlimit goes up to 65. I went to court and paid the ticket, but honestly, if I had a surefire way out of the ticket that wouldn’t have made me look like an asshole (or at least more than I already do) than I would’ve taken it.

To be completely honest I feel that most speed limits in my area are set too low as it is. No matter where I go the flow of traffic is going anywhere from 10 to 25mph over the speed limit. I’m sorry but I’m not gonna slow down and make myself a potential accident victim just on the off chance I’ll avoid a ticket. FWIW I always try to follow the speed limit in residential areas.

However I will say I can’t see how your friend can say he wasn’t guilty. He knew he broke the law so how could he say he was innocent, at least to himself anyways?

10

I’m gonna have to side with Civil Defense here.

It’s one thing to fight, believing, perhaps wrongly, in your innocence. It’s quite another thing to know you were wrong and waste a day for a judge and a cop, all because you’re too much of a maggot to cough up the couple of bucks you rightfully owe.

Hey, it’s your right to demand your day in court. But your still a creep.(I am, of course, refering to the asshole speeder)

11

I do.

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to refuse to abide by the laws setting them.

12

I was never arguing with whether I have a right to drive. But if I got caught I do have a right to defend myself to the best of my abilities if I so choose.

I’ve gotten four tickets in my life. Those four times I ended up paying twice what I owed so it didn’t go on my record. Am I cheating my insurance company by doing that? No, I’m playing within the rules of the game.
I’ve been stopped an additional four times during my life. Each time I was guilty of what the officer accussed me of, whether it was speeding or driving through a construction zone. I’ve managed to talk my way out of tickets those four times. Am I wrong to have done so? I was guilty, so why not be a good citizen, thank the officer for my punishment, and pay my fines?

13

Well what about my point about the speed limit being unsafe?

Honestly, why in God’s good name should I put myself in a situation where I could cause myself, or others harm? In all the years I’ve been driving I’ve never had an accident and have only one ticket. I’m careful when I drive (bit paranoid perhaps) and I follow all the traffic laws but one.

My point is if I’m doing my best to drive in a manner that I feel is the safest for me and other drivers around me why should I be ticketed for that? Like I said this isn’t something I bitched, or bitch about, I just find the whole scenario to be counter-productive: we’ll post speed limits, but at levels where the safest speed to drive at is over the speed limit? And then when people try to drive in a defensive fashion (and yes, it is speeding in this instance) we’ll fine them for it? If they ever tried a serious crackdown in my area concerning speeders there would be a hell of a lot of hubbub (try doing the speed limit on the Washington Beltway, people have actually sought counseling over it).

And just in case I wasn’t clear I do feel a need for speed limits and I follow them whenever it seems the wisest course of action (i.e. I’m the only one on the road), and I can sympathize with having a friend blatantly and callously disregard the law and their own safety and then bitch about getting a ticket.

14

I hate when people do that! Hatehatehate it.

My dad did the same thing to me once. I’d received a ticket for 45 in a 30 (which isn’t as bad as it sounds; the area isn’t residential, and cars regularly go about 40 in them. Also, I was riding with Aunt Flo :o). Instead of telling him, I decided to pony up, go to court, and pay the damn ticket.

I knew full well that, since my court supervision for my other ticket was still going on, I would probably end up with a suspended license for having two tickets on my record. However, I knew that:

1.) I’d broken the law, and had known that I was breaking the law.
2.) I had absolutely no case against the ticket. There was no possibility that he could have been aiming at the wrong car, that his equipment had been faulty, etc. He probably could have done it by sight
3.) Hi, Opal!

Also, I was going to a college in a few weeks, and I wouldn’t have a car or be paying for insurance while I was there.

Anyway…so I pay for the ticket, clear up the other two tickets the cop had given me (tangent: the cop was a total asshole. Not only did he not care that Aunt Flo was there, but he wouldn’t let me go to the bathroom while he was writing the ticket. I had pulled over into a Big Apple Bagel just so that I could go in the bathroom and maybe rig something out of toilet paper. He wouldn’t let me leave to go to the bathroom until after he finished writing the tickets. Sadist.). As I suspected, my license was suspended.

I tell my dad. His reaction?

Not anger.

He tells me that I should have bribed the judge!

Real great role model, dad. :rolleyes:

15

Civil Defense - a question for you:

Tomorrow morning, a cop shows up at your door. He says, “Hey - I was reading your SDMB post about speeding tickets, and I noticed that you said you have exceeded the speed limit before. So - here’s a ticket. The address to pay your fine is on the back. Have a nice day!”

Now, I’m assuming you’d be outraged, and try to fight it in court. After all, the cop didn’t see you speed at all, and the offense he’s talking about could be days or weeks old. The state simply can’t prove its case against you, under the law.

But wait a sec – you were, as you’ve admitted, actually guilty. Why would you undertake to evade responsibility for something you’re actually guilty of?

Next question: a cop waves you over to the side of the road, and says he clocked you with radar at 20 mph over the speed limit two days ago, but couldn’t get you then because of an emergency. He’s sure it was you - and sure enough, you recall speeding two days ago. Do you fight it, or pay?

Next question: a cop waves you over to the side of the road, and says he clocked you with radar at 20 mph over the speed limit. But you notice his “radar gun” is just a prop made of cardboard. Nonetheless, you were speeding. Do you pay up, or fight the ticket?

The point, I think, for people who choose to fight their ticket is that they believe they have a right not to be convicted for speeding - or any offense - unless the government has evidence that shows them as guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt. THAT is the “right” referred to by Enderw24 and others – not the right to drive, but the right to due process of law. Yes, the law forbids speeding – but it also forbids guilty verdicts unless the evidence supports it.

  • Rick
16

Nope, no pay. I got away with it.

Nope. I got away with it.

If I was really speeding, I pay.

It’s sad that people who know they committed a crime will try to weasel out of it instead of fessing up to it.

17

Let me clarify…

By saying “I got away with it,” I mean it’s the officer’s job to stop me on the spot and inform me of my crime. Otherwise, the officer has failed to perform their duty. In that case, I don’t feel I owe them anything.

Getting caught in the act, red handed, is a different thing. Actually, now that I think more about it, if I do remember speeding when the officer suggests I was, and he was truly unable to stop me due to an emergency, I’d pay it. Generalizations such as “you speed, pay” won’t fly, though.

18

I got a ticket about a month ago driving 43 in a 30, right before a 45 mph sign. I was actually following somebody else, who was going much faster, but the cop immediately said something to the effect of, “Well, I can’t stop both you guys, so you’re screwed.”

Talking to another police officer, he said, “Yeah, that’s a well known speed trap.”

Now, who’s the creep in this situation? By God, it is the asshole cop. Although he took an oath to protect and serve the public, he deliberately gets in a position to ticket people. This does not serve the public, nor does his inaction to improve the safety of this traffic zone though signage protect the public. Furthermore, he has a direct conflict of interest because he is stealing my money to raise the revenue of his department. (BTW, he was the chief of the small town of Amity, OR, police force. He does have the power to affect change.)

Hey, you doing 50 in a 20, you deserve the ticket.
You do 43 next to a 45, maintaining the flow of traffic, and a cop is waiting there just so he can pay for his next raise, this is unethical.

19

I don’t get this. Really, I don’t. How is the cop an asshole in this situation? Did you not know you were in a 30 MPH zone? Speed limits are set for a reason. Not always a great reason, but there you are. Speed traps are also there for reason(a, they know people like to speed there. b, there have been accidents. c, citizens have made requests)

If you want to take your chances and go faster, fine. We’re all adults here. But don’t whine that it’s unfair when you get your hand smacked.

20

I think speedtraps are another thing entirely. A lot of the time, they are set up to generate income through tickets.

I’ll give an example to make sure my point is clear:

A couple of years ago I used to live in a suburb of Montreal, where the police used to put traps all over the place, and most of them were not for public safety.

One example: There was a street that ran from an industrial area to a residential area. There was a railroad crossing, after which some houses appeared, but only on one side of the road, and that was for a couple of blocks. Before the railroad crossing, there are no residences, and the road turns 90 degrees before the railroad crossing. For some reason, the speed limit dropped from 70 Km/H to 30 Km/H a long while before the railroad crossing. It wasn’t uncommon to see more than one cop with a radar and a couple of motorcycles set up a radar trap right after the 30 Km/H speed limit sign. They were not making anyone safer with this, they were getting extra revenue.