I have an 80 Porsche 924 that I want to autocross if I can ever keep it running long enough to make it out of my driveway. I’m thinking about taking a high performance driving class. Has anyone here gone to one? What did you think of it? Thanks.
If your plans are to autocross, I’d suggest contacting your local SCCA chapter to see what they recommend. My local group offers a weekend autocross school at least once a year, and I believe most (if not all) other chapters do too. The benefit here is that they’re taught by very experienced folks (often National-level competitors), and what you learn is directly applicable to autocrossing, rather than taking a separate road racing/high-performance driving school.
It is also said that “autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers don’t always make good autocrossers.” There would be a lot of overlap in the skills, so either way you’d benefit, but I believe you’ll get more out of a dedicated local autocross driving school than out of the typical high performance/road racing schools. I started autocrossing without going to one of the schools, and now I’m planning to go when they offer one this season. I need to develop better habits to go faster. The local SCCA autocross schools are usually much less expensive too. Enjoy!
Also, you might find this book helpful: Secrets of Solo Racing.
I also forgot to mention that your regional Porsche club might offer autocross/high performance driving instruction too. Our local club has, in the past, rented a race track for their autocross competitions. For both Porsche Club and SCCA events, you are expected to bring your own car, but that doesn’t mean it has to be the one you expect to compete in during the season.
I tried autocrossing a few times after getting my Miata, but at about the same time started running High Performance Drivers Ed (HPDE) courses. I never went back to autocrossing.
For me the downside of autocross is that you spend a long time (most events are four to eight hours) during which you’ll only make a handful of runs, for a total of a ten or fifteen minutes on track.
With HPDEs you’ll be on track for hours over the course of a day. You’ll be running faster, with other cars around you (although you’re not racing, so there’s little to no risk of collisions), and you’re learning the same techniques used by your favorite race drivers. It’s much more intense and challenging than autocross (IMO, at least).
The downside to HPDEs is that they are more expensive: $150-$250/day, compared to $40-$75/day (IIRC) for an autocross. Also, depending on where you live, it may be a bit of a trip to your nearest track, whereas autocrosses can be run in any large unobstructed parking lot.
But I’ve found HPDEs worth every penny. I ran two autocross events about five years ago, but in the last four years I’ve run 36 HPDEs and a 3-day Skip Barber Racing school. It’s my main hobby now. I moved from the Miata to a 944 Turbo, and now am the proud owner of a Nissan 350Z.
As for where to go, one of the greatest resources (for HPDEs) is www.trackschedule.com.
You can also look for your local NASA chapter (that’s National Auto Sport Association, not the space folks). The national web site is http://www.nasaproracing.com. And as ** peritrochoid ** mentioned, your local Porsche chapter is a good resource.
Good luck, and have fun.
commasense, are the HPDEs competitive events or are they strictly driver education events? The draw to autocrossing, for me, is the competition. The pressure to shave a few tenths or hundredths of a second off a lap time (in only 3 or 4 runs) to beat the next guy (or girl) is pretty exciting. Granted, track time is short, as you indicated, but the cost (ours are $15-20 per event) and competition are big factors for me. But I will definitely investigate the HPDEs and the NASA links. Thanks.
HPDEs are by definition non-competive, although they can be used as training toward club racing and other forms of competition. But this will most likely take you to a whole new level of expense and involvement. Most competition cars are not street legal.
You can time yourself in HPDEs (although some organizations frown on that or outright prohibit it), and in that way compete with yourself (that’s what I do), or with others by comparing times after the session. But side-by-side “mock racing” is strictly prohibited at these events.
HPDEs are characterized as educational events in part to keep them within the allowed parameters of standard auto insurance policies, which nearly always disallow racing or competitive events. (This is something you might want to consider about autocrossing: if you break you car there–and the insurance company finds out somehow–they might refuse to pay, and might also drop you or raise your premiums.)
I’ve heard it suggested that by timing yourself at an HPDE you might run afoul of your insurance company if you have an accident while on track. Apparently, some policies equate “timed events” with competition or racing. But I find that a little far-fetched. The presence of a stopwatch doesn’t turn the event into a race. And how would they find out? But the organizers may be erring on the side of caution.
I’ve asked my insurance agent, and I’m covered for educational track events. (Erie Insurance Group.) Fortunately, I haven’t had to make a claim.
So you’re right: if you really have the competitive bug, autocrossing is a cheap, safe, and easy way to get your ya-yas out in your regular street car.
I’m not very competitive, but I usually time myself at HPDEs, and I’m trying to shave tenths, too. Every time I go to the track, I’m trying to “tighten the nut behind the wheel” as they say. But I have little or no temptation to move into racing. It helps that I also don’t have the inclination, time, garage, and (most importantly) money to make the move.
For me, the HPDE vs. autocross debate comes down to the amount of track time you get for the time invested, and the greater intensity of running on a long road course for 20, 30, or even 40 minutes at a stretch. If this doesn’t sound like much, you haven’t experienced the incredible physical and mental stress of high-speed driving. If you’re doing it right, you’ll come out of a 30-minute track session exhausted. But exhilarated!
I’ve driven on four tracks, including famous ones like Watkins Glen and Mid-Ohio. It is such a blast to be driving a track you’ve seen pros like Michael Andretti or Jeff Gordon drive. And it’s much more interesting to watch the races after you’ve driven that track yourself.
But it’s all good. Have fun and tell us all about it.
BTW, peritrochoid, what gen RX do you drive?
Thanks, commasense. The HPDEs sound like a blast. I will definitely have to investigate.
I have a 1st gen GSL-SE with a few mods to improve breathing and handling. However, it hasn’t seen autocross action since last summer. I bought a GTI back in September which is my current daily driver/auto-x car.
Maybe the 7 will find its way into dedicated track use now … HPDEs, here I come! 
So dieselmech: What do you think? Autocross or HPDE?
BTW, if you or ** peritrochoid** will say where you’re located, I can probably tell you about your closest tracks.
I’m in Knoxville, Tennessee.
Well, the bad news is that, as far as I can tell, there isn’t a single road course anywhere in Tennessee (or, for that matter, in four of the nine states that border it: Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas or Missouri). This is according to the Chasin’ Racin’ site I linked above. That doesn’t seem very fair.
So I guess you’re going to have a bit of a drive:
Road Atlanta is about 250 miles away, in Braselton, GA.
Lowes Motor Speedway has a road course in addition to the famous oval track, and is about 250 miles away, near Charlotte, NC.
Barber Motorsports Park is about 260 miles away, in Birmingham, AL.
Carolina Motorspors Park is about 270 miles away, in Kershaw, NC.
Virginia International Raceway is about 300 miles away, near Danville, VA.
Indianapolis Raceway Park is about 375 miles away, near Indianapolis.
Putnam Park is about 400 miles away, in Mount Meridian, IN,
Roebling Road is about 420 miles away, in Bloomingdale, GA.
The Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course is about 420 miles away, in Lexington, OH.
And finally, if you feel like driving all of 440 miles, you can join me sometime at my “home” track (only 75 miles for me) Summit Point, near Charles Town (not Charleston), WV.
I feel kind of guilty now for getting you all worked up about HPDEs. I hope you have some friends or relatives within an hour or so of some of these tracks.
However, many events are on weekends. So you can probably just take off half of Friday to drive there, check into the hotel (or your friends’) and you’ll be all set for Saturday. Then you can leave mid-day on Sunday to get home before it gets too late.
I figured there wouldn’t be anything here. Atlanta and Charlotte are easy trips, and I’ve made those drives for auto-x events before. Sounds like I have to make some weekend road trip plans this year. Thanks for the track listing.
peritrochoid: Here’s one for you in Nashville!
I didn’t realize Nashville had a road course. Way too far for me (700 miles), but only 180 miles for you.
Awesome!
Several folks in my club hit the Nashville Region’s auto-x events at the speedway during the season too. I’ll bet I can work up some interest and get a few people to go.
Thanks, commasense!