Just curious, Hamlet, have you ever given your wife a diamond?
I won’t let cruelty hitch a ride in my Denali! :mad:
binarydrone, how are “refusing to purchase drugs because they support Very Bad Things” and “arguing against the WOD because legalization would solve the problem of Very Bad Things happening” mutually exclusive?
Right on Hamlet. I agree whole-heartedly about the SUVs. I sorta agree with your comments regarding the Very Bad Things that drug money supports, but as has been said many times, the consumer is only partially to blame there.
One thing that people always respond with in discussions like this one is the argument that if the OP doesn’t like gas guzzling SUVs, how can he like any kind of modern conveniences? This is a pretty spurious leap. I don’t want the United States to stop using gas all together, I just think that we use way too much. We only represent 5% of the world’s population, and we consume over 20% of it’s oil production.
When I went to Europe last summer, I could literally count on one hand the number of SUVs and large trucks I saw on the road in a day, and every single one of them was being used for commercial purposes. I went to get a burger last week in Allen (north Dallas, TX area) with my in-laws. We were meeting them in the parking lot outside, so we were looking for their white Ford Expidition. There were 3 outside that one restaurant, and 5 other large white SUVs of different models. There were plenty more that weren’t white, but that seems to be the most popular color around these parts at the moment. They’re everywhere! All getting 10-15 miles to the gallon. And please note that I’m only talking about the giant land warriors here, not the smaller, somewhat more efficient SUVs.
The other thing I can count on one hand? The number of times that it came in sorta handy for my in-laws to have that monstrosity. Visiting grandma once a year, it comes in handy. That’s about it. The other 364 days, a mid-size car would suit them wonderfully.
You mean one that doesn’t make as much sense so you can actually mount an argument against it or what? Human societies are not comprised of drones you can simply program with legislation, they will do what they feel is in their best interest, more or less.
To tell the truth, I never gave anyone’s death two thoughts when I purchased some hits of LSD back in the day. Not two thoughts. I’d say not one but in fact I think it did once occur to me. Didn’t stop me from buying it. Didn’t stop my friend from dealing it. And his arrest and conviction didn’t stop us from using it, and AFAIK he still does some dealing on the side now that he is out.
Why? Oh, lesse… hmm… because it is profitable maybe? No, let me be absolutely fucking serious: because it is profitable. In fact I had a long discussion on the matter with him. His words were: “I was working in landscaping for about 45 minutes, busting my ass in the fucking sun so some bitch could have a prettier yard than her neighbor, and I thought, ‘You know, I could have made this much money in two minutes at a rave.’ It just clicked then for me.”
There is still illegal bootlegging in some areas of the US because of the legal restrictions on alcohol. Still. The roadblocks to its production and sale still make it a profitable venture, and where there is profit to be made in a country this large where more or less victemless crimes are difficult to enforce, you can bet your sweet ass someone is going to take that and run with it.
Why? Because it is easy. It is worth the risk. In short, these people feel that they are making a more or less good decision and your high horse and fucking legislation isn’t changing that. Enough people want it, and they will get it. Do enough people want it to overturn the legislation? Who the fuck cares? Not me. That rarely entered my mind when I purchased a sack of weed. Sometimes I wish the media would portray responsible drug use.
But oh wait, that can’t get play because the people would be taking an unnecessary risk in exposing themselves and their lifestyles. Captured criminals do not have the luxury of surpressing police reports and media hounds. I, for example, did. And I chose that path. Why? Because the laws against it served as a barrier to personally promoting a lifestyle free of harassment from law enforcement.
I’m not sorry people die. It upsets me because they don’t have to, because criminals don’t have to be in the drug racket. I’ve read estimates that Americans spend upwards of a billion dollars on drugs. Wanna know how much they spend on video games? Wanna bet that if we outlaw violent games there won’t be a black market for that, too? How much do you suppose we would have to tax drug use to cover the costs to society in terms of health care and rehabilitation? Do you suppose for just a second that such a consideration should be granted any weight?
Hell no, because you just want to whine about people breaking the law, and you want to blame the consequences of that law on the people who break it instead.
Be my fucking guest.
Yeah, hahaha. Those silly motherfuckers think that it is the legislation that made the black market, and all the evils that are associated with black markets. What fools they are! Why can’t they just see the fucking light?
I see no one, not one single fucking person, arguing that murderers should not be punished even if that murder was a result of the black market. If anything, I see people pushing to get drugs legal to avoid such crimes. Can you imagine why?
I chose to buy an SUV because I have certain needs which I expect my vehicle to meet, one of which is the ability to arrive at work from a rural location in a state where there tends to be an awful lot of snow. This year has been mild and I could have gotten by with something more fuel efficient than my truck, but why should I go to the expense of owning two vehicles so that whiny, loudmouthed, “people” can feel warm and fuzzy knowing that have had some influence on the way others live their lives? Am I to blame, as cowgirl put it, because the weather dictates that I own a vehicle which doesn’t meet her needs? I wonder if she has given any consideration to the amount of pollution and non-renewable resources that went into the manufacture of the bike she is so proud of riding…
See, that is a pretty good question and one to which I have devoted some thought. I guess that the short answer is that I am handing over legitimacy to the WOD if I choose to alter my behavior based on the havoc that they have wrought.
Thanks for the reply. I’ve got another question, so please excuse any ignorance on my part - I’m not that well-versed on the WOD.
What havoc has the WOD created that wasn’t already there? Is it the escalation of the nature of drug-smuggling (i.e. better technology fighting better technology, etc.)?
Somehow tobacco smokers are involved in all of this as well.
At least this wasn’t a waste of bandwidth. I agree with you 100%
Not true. There are different kinds of addiction: on the one hand, you have physical addiction and, on the other, psychological addiction.
Alcohol, caffiene, nicotine, heroin, etc. have physically addictive characteristics - when the user stops, he will experience various degrees of physical withdrawl symptoms such as shaking, sweating, vomitting, headaches, death… You get the idea.
Pot, chocolate, shopping, even this very message board, as well as a wide variety of other substances/activies can, to some people, have psychologically addictive characteristics - when the user stops, he can experience various degrees of psychological withdrawl symptoms. If the addiction is strong enough, these withdrawl symptoms can be very similar to the symptoms of physical withdrawl… although I seriously doubt anyone would actually die if they quit the message board. You never know with some people though. 
No cites. I’m telling you this based on my own personal experience with most of the addictions listed above. I know that pot and acid aren’t addictive to everyone, but I honestly think that just about anything can be addictive to someone.
YMMV, use only as directed, void in Kansas, Vermont add sales tax, etc.
Really? OK,
Before the War on Drugs, some people did drugs and some did not. Of those that did, some probably had problems with addiction and all of the issues that go along with that, while I am sure others did not.
That has not changed. What the War on Drugs has added to the equation is prison crowding, a black market where none existed before (and all of the gun toting maniacs (from both sides BTW) that go along with that), people denied employment (a la drug tests) for something that they choose to do in their free time, and so forth.
And by the way, there is no actual incentive for the thugs in charge to win this war. There is just too much money in it for that to happen (where do you think that all of the confiscated money and property goes?).
Let’s not stop there. What about all the people who give money to religion? No end of bad things have come from religious organizations! So the next time you see a Salvation Army bell ringer, punch him in the face!
And taxes–hey, don’t get me started on taxes! Taxes buy nuclear bombs!
You’re right… BEFORE the WOD you could walk into K-Mart and buy your dime bags off the shelf in a variety of designer scents… What do you MEAN where there was no black market before???
Yeah pretty much. What do you think a black market is? If something isn’t illegal, there’s no black market.
In the old days you could get heroin in the Sears catalog.
What do you mean by “black market” that the rest of us are missing?
**
So I guess you fall in the “don’t care” group? I know you said that you’re not sorry that people die because of the illicit drug trade. but I still have a problem with your assertion that you bear no fault for your support of the illicit drug trade. The fact remains, it is illegal. Go ahead and change it if you can, but also realize that your money is being used for Very Bad Things. Blame the government all you want, but don’t deny your a part of it too.
And this:
I am wrong for blaming the people who break a law? Huh? I don’t want to just whine, I want people to stop giving money to support Very Bad Things in return for a fucking buzz. If it were legal, be my fucking guest, but until it is, you are at the very least, part of the problem. And nice straw man on the murderers not being punished.
And Binarydome, I understand you think drugs should be legal. Personal rights, and all that. Maybe I even agree with you, but understand that: I DON’T CARE!!! Painting your support of the illicit drug trade and the resulting Very Bad Things as some kind of civil disobedience is troubling. The fact that your money is helping a system founded and perpetuating violence and death isn’t your fault because you have the right to smoke weed? Sorry, but I don’t buy it.
Hey, if you aren’t giving money to an organized religion because of their horrendous viewpoints on homosexuality, more power to you. I don’t know many Salvation Army people who engage in turf wars and the murders of undercover officers to wring bells, but maybe you know more than me/
Well, how far back do you want to go with this?
Before the Pharmacy Act of 1868, people dispensing drugs did not even need to be registered. Meaning that I could, if I wanted to, order Morphine and syringes through the mail and sell it. Opium dens were not prohibited in the western states until 1875-90. It was not until 1937 that the sale and use of marijuana was prohibited by all states.
From the research that I have briefly done, Marijuana seems to have been sold (prior to the late 30s) in "Tea-Pads, which seem to have been similar in functionality to the Cafes that exist today in Amsterdam.
Damn it!!! Stop posting and turn off your computers! You’re supporting very bad things with all this wanton power consumption.