I’m not sure how much Jeaneane Garofalo deserves to be poked at for losing the election. Seems to me that nominating a mediocrity like John Kerry pretty much sums up the entire thing.
When you need a hit, you send Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron to the plate, not Tim McCarver.
You can’t pin it all on John Kerry. After all, there is the legions of people who actively worked for (or were unable to override) his selection. The Democrats are a shande. A shande for the neighbors. They haven’t been able to win on an issue of substance for quite a while now. Think of the last time a substantial piece of the Democratic platform was enacted into law. Not when the Democrats have prevailed by prevented the Republicans from getting their way, but an actual piece of Democratic progressive legislation enacted into law. It has been a long, long time.
Both sides have got away from their roots. The Repbulicans show their conservative bent when they slash taxes. The obvious next conservative step would be to cut spending, but instead they are very progressive (in fact, almost revolutionarily progressive in the case of the neocons) when they promote certain kinds of government spending (namely defense) as an institute for change (especially in places like Afghanistan and Iraq). The Democrats have obviously done the same. This is pretty obvious, as the parties mirror popular views, and there are very few all-conservatives and all-liberals around.
Throw away the term progressive as a descriptor of leftist politics. You can also throw away liberal, conservative, left, and right, when used to describe party politics. Be accurate. Use Democrat and Republican, because both sides have progressive and conservative planks.
Let’s try to get to transparency and honesty in politics. We start with accurately describing our political ideals, and using the correct terminology to describe them. Democrat and Republican are basically meaningless terms to which we can safely assign political views both progressive and conservative. Recognize that it is OK to have both aspects in your politics. It is perhaps the best way to run a government. It is pretty obvious that there are some things that the government is good at (fighting wars, building roads, etc.) and some things that it isnt (managing agricultural production). The USA was built upon these concepts of free-market capitalism with enforced protections of liberty. Let’s stop this elementary school finger pointing and name calling and get back to high concepts on what government can and can’t do and what it should and shouldn’t do.
Nope. Let’s see your cite that most people think Bush is an idiot. Because from where I’m sitting, it looks like you’re just pulling shit out of your ass.
You’re right, Bush constantly impresses everyone with his keen intellect.
Where’s your cite that most people think Bush is an idiot? You’re the one who said it. Back it up. Or, you are free to withdraw the statement-- that would be the non-idiotic thing to do.
No. I’m not going to be your monkey.
Yeah, that goofy Newt Gingrich and GOPAC’s list of demonizing polarizing political terms, that was just something to wile away those boring Saturday nights, right?
Nah. The simple truth is that conservatives simply have no qualms about blatantly lying, cheating, and stealing to accomplish their goals.
Kinda depends on how big a net you want to throw. Just in America? No, probably not even half would say “idiot”. Worldwide? Tough call. Worldwide, its probably more like they think we are the idiots.
But that’s ok, long as they’re scared of us. Who needs friends like France, when you got freedom-loving military dictatorships like Pakistan on your side? OK, so they had a atomic bomb garage sale, well, heck, that’s just good ol’ fashioned entreprenuership! They’re our true blue buddies, long as we don’t turn our back. And keep writing the checks. Friends like that, who needs a bunch of Yurpeens?
Yeah, things is great! Got Count Iraqula sucking the blood right out of our viens, and no end in sight. Throw the rich folks the keys to the Treasury, hand 'em a shovel and say “Help yourselves!” But we got ourselves a firm and decisive leader, who never makes a mistake. Made all his mistakes before he became President, fucked up everything he touched for 40 years and presto! instant Leader of Men! Must have been God. 'Cause its a fucking miracle.
But we have an ace in the hole: honest conservatives. Kind of honorable people who think it really stinks to make political capital out of a harmless minority who only want what everybody else got for free. Kind of people who know that cutting taxes and starting a war at the same time does for stupid what Gibralter does for rocks. Kind of people who feel a bit dirty right now, a bit ashamed of themselves, sitting silently by while a good and decent man is slandered by fanatics.
Winning isn’t everything. We learned that when we sacrificed the South for civil rights. And the Nixons, the Gingrichs and the DeLays grabbed your party with both hands, gloating about how hard-headed and realistic they are. The only principles you have left are cynicism and marketing. Barry Goldwater wouldn’t wipe his butt with GeeDubya.
And we’re dead? What makes you think you’re alive?
These the same folks that figure the US government was actually responsible for 9/11? Hm…tough call on how to take their opinion. How do they feel about OUR opinion of their system? Of their leaders? How do they feel about other outside opinions of their system, their leaders? My guess fwiw…they don’t give a shit about how we feel about their internal politics. And they don’t give a shit on how we feel about their leaders. Nor do they give a shit about how other outsiders feel about either. Sure, its just a WAG on my part…but I’m betting I’m right about that.
Not that I’m a big fan of GW mind you…but I think its safe to say that folks outside our system aren’t exactly well informed of our internal politics…most of them don’t have a clue how America works (present company on the SDMB excluded of course). I remember the stunned disbelief when Bush went to England and was actually able to talk for instance…because they had been told by their media that Bush was little better than a talking (or not talking) monkey (I know, I know…you feel much the same way. The difference is you actually live here :)). I find myself strangely unaffected by the opinions of those outside our system to internal matters dealing with our government. Perhaps you feel that outsiders have some magic power to just know about how our internal system works (or doesn’t work)…I’m a bit more skeptical.
Not like France ever stepped on its crank with some foriegn adventure or another, right? Not like we ever bailed THEM out when they fucked up royally. Naw. I’m sure (since we are making tongue in cheek comments of course) that those dollars (or Euro’s) slipped under the table by Saddam were more important than a weak relationship with the US. BTW, whats this gots to do with ‘liberals’ and the perception of ‘liberals’ in America? Just curious, though I hate to break your stride on a roll.
Well, this is an epic rant…but what the hell does it have to do with the OP? However, my hats off to you for the ‘Count Iraqula’ comment…might not be totally accurate, but it IS funny.
Er…ok. So, liberals are misunderstood and exploited by the evil conservatives, while being the only sane folks out there (i.e. they know that its not smart to cut taxes and start wars at the same time…and they are just smarter than the average bear over all). Got all that. Check.
Basically I’m puzzled how this rant really relates to the OP…except to score some cheap points on the tangent and to show how droll a fellow you are. Hell, I’m unclear exactly who your post was directed at to be honest.
-XT
:dubious:
I know no one who believes that the US govt was responsible for 9/11 (unless by ‘responsible’ you mean ‘shouldn’t have been surprised that the people they spent so much time pissing off took a swing at them’).
I know a lot of people who think Bush is an idiot. Personally, I don’t think he’s an idiot. I think he’s dead wrong about 80-90% of policy matters, and dangerously ignorant about global affairs, but I don’t think he’s an idiot.
As for “progressives”, I wonder if someone told Bill 0’Reilly that Canada doesn’t have a Progressive agenda anymore, and hasn’t since 1993. And since the Progressive Conservative Party merged with the Canadian Alliance Party to become the Conservative Party last year, we won’t be having a Progressive agenda again anytime soon. No more Progressives anywhere to be seen. Where does that man get his information about Canada from? 
Aren’t you the newest Mod? Or is my paranoia unfounded about political affiliation of those in charge?
So you’ve got three shitholes, one worse than the others, the worker slaves crushed by taxes and socialist dogma. Yah!
Anyway socialists, and these days the left in general are about as progressive as a culture of fossilised E.coli. New experimental ideas and progressive thoughts are now almost solely the domain of the right. The Neocons are progressive. The “progressive” are just regurgitating old & tired ideologues.
Yes, the poor, poor Swedes, suffering so much…
Index of Living Conditions - 2004
The United Nations ranked Canada fourth on its Human Development Index in 2004. Canada has established a reputation for outstanding living conditions, earning the UN's top ranking for seven consecutive years, from 1994 to 2000. The country's standard of living, health care system, educational attainment, housing, cultural and recreational facilities, level of public safety and tourist opportunities are all of an exceptionally high quality.
Rank Country
1 Norway
2 Sweden
3 Australia
4 Canada
5 Netherlands
6 Belgium
7 Iceland
8 U.S.A.
9 Japan
10 Ireland
11 Switzerland
12 U.K.
13 Finland
14 Austria
15 Luxembourg
Socialism sure is evil for the Norwegians and Swedes, and those poor Canadians! I can’t imagine the suffering in Iceland.
If I used a similar argument about Sylvia Browne, we would all chuckle – at me. Because I would be blindly sticking to my preconceptions, instead of re-examining basic assumptions in light of experimental truths.
You still are convinced that all it took to make “liberal” a dirty word was repetition, even though that clearly wasn’t sufficient to make Bush a moron.
Maybe liberal got to be a dirty word for a more substantial reason. Maybe liberals are associated with idiotic ideas. Now, this is not to say that liberals are not also the font of good ideas as well… but that the idiotic ideas are successfully glued to the liberals.
When people hear that kids at school can’t play tag because it hurts self-esteem, do you think they shake their heads at the conservatives or the liberals? When they hear that a school graduation can’t say a generic prayer at the ceremony, is it at the liberals’ or the conservatives’ feet that the blame is laid? When they hear that a dam can’t be built to lower energy costs and provide construction jobs because the snail darter is endangered, do you think it’s the conservatives who take a PR hit?
It’s more complicated that “repetition.” It’s the successful association of “liberal” with “looney left.”
Sometimes this is justified. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes the issue is nuanced, but, as I have explained elsewhere, nuance does sell as well as a quick, eight-second talking point. “The liberals like snails better than jobs for hard-working Americans.” Wrong on many levels? Sure. Successful in demonizing liberals?
Sure.
What a crock.
That part of it is certainly fair.
That part is the crock. The UN has decided that income of citizens beyond the average global real GDP per capita in $PPP adds essentially no value to life, and does not contribute to the “Human Development Index.”
Whatever floats your boat. Me, I aspire to live in a country that offers significant opportunities for income in excess of the average global real GDP per capita in $PPP.
Maybe I shouldn’t say “crock.” Maybe I should simply say that what the HDI is actually measuring is not as relevant TO ME as a good measure of a country’s desirability as a place to live. It has a very socialist bent.
These stats are in my opinion even more poignant if you consider that the US is the country with the highest BNP by far. I think it’s something like 21.000 for the Netherlands, and 30.000 in the U.S. And still the Netherlands ranks higher, even while being one of the most crowded areas in the world and no pretty mountains to look at. Not to mention that horror of horrors to U.S. conservatives, the near Commie State Sweden. Where they have no babies. So they will die out anyway, ha ha, let’s see what that does for their ranking. :rolleyes:
I’m recalling a European poll I saw as a cite in a thread once claiming that some fairly high percentage of Europeans (especially Germans for some reason) thought that the US government was directly responsible for 9/11 when I said this. However, when I said it it was more for effect than that I ACTUALLY believe that Europeans really think this. I have to admit that my last post to 'luci was not one of my best. I can only say it was late and I was filled with holiday cheer…and leave it at that.
Well, I agree with you. Note that I didn’t vote for him either.
Er…are you pulling my leg here? My post was pretty clear in stating that I DON’T think ‘liberal’ is a dirty word simply from repetition by conservatives…and I even make the point about the Bush/moron thing. Was your target audience someone else with this?
I agree with the gist of your post of course…I think its a combination of conservatives being successful in sticking some lables on liberals, and on some of the liberal ideas or agenda just leaving a bad taste in many Americans mouth. Liberal economics especially, as well as the growing bloat with seemingly little return in some of their grand social programs are two areas I can think of off the top of my head…and its not ALL conservative talking points that make for those bad associations.
Time to make a change for the liberals and to dump some of their baggage and make a fresh start IMO. Course, my opinion doesn’t really count for much as I’m see as a ‘conservative’. 
-XT
Careless writing… “you” was the “you all that buy this argument,” not you that posted what I’m replying to, as the post went on, without a clue of where the pronoun shifted target. My bad. Your post was clear; my response was muddled.
No worries…I’m slightly hung over and just making sure I’m not missing something.
-XT
Too late. 