Dsus2 - huh?

Cafe Society
1

(before you read further, please understand that this is a post based purely on music theory nerdiness)

In looking at various sheet music and the such, I constantly come across the chord that people refer to as Dsus2. I know what they mean, and I’m generally fine with everyone referring to it with that name.

But…

My music geekitude continually nags at me regarding that nomenclature. As far as I know, technically, that chord is a D(add9), and strictly speaking there is really not such a thing as a sus2 chord. However, I am open to the possibility that I am sorely mistaken, and this message board strikes me as an excellent place to confirm/deny. Fellow music-y type people, can you help me out here?

2

I believe the normal definition of a suspended chord is a major chord where the third is replaced by one of its neighboring notes, so sus4 and sus2 are both correct.
I’m sure someone with more theory training than me will come along and geek out on this, but both Dsus2 and D(add 9) are telling you to add an E to the D triad, so what’s the problem? Technically, I think a second should be inside the triad and a ninth would be higher than the triad, but most guitar chords are inversions anyway.

3

Chord symbol usage is not an exact science - what is usually meant by D2 is to take the first position D major chord and lift the finger playing the F# on the second fret of the first string. This gives you the notes D-A-D-E, and when the F# gets added as a hammer or a second strum, you’ve added some interest as that D2 resolves to a D major.

To me, the Dsus2 implies that the E is suspended and is going to resolve to the D. This also implies that the F# is already in the chord somewhere, which is not always the case. Sometimes, Dsus2 is used as if it were the same chord as what I just described as D2. Sometimes, Dsus2 means take the C-shaped chord of D (5) - 5, (4) - 4, (3) - 2, (2) - 3, (1) - 2 {string number in brackets, fret number is plain} and lift the note on the 1st string, giving (5) - 5, (4) - 4, (3) - 2, (2) - 3, (1) - 0. As a general rule, sus refers to the fact that the sus chord is going to resolve to a chord based on the same root. Standard practice with the sus4 is that it resolves down, which is why I’d personally prefer someone use sus2 when the E is going to resolve to the D, but it’s a descriptive system, not a prescriptive one, and the people doing the writing are just trying to find a good shorthand for what they’re playing.

D9 is a different animal because it is a dominant 9th, and ought to have the C in it, and it’s expected that it is going to resolve to a G chord (major or minor), or deceptively to a B minor, or in all sorts of really cool ways. But the D9 has a different sound because of that tritone between the F# and the C.

Hope this helps.

4

Well, I can say for sure that the “sus” specification is not telling you to add the note to the triad - as you stated, the “sus” denotes replacing the third, not adding an extra note to the triad.

But here’s the thing - logically, the term “suspending” implies raising something up, not lowering it. As such, the 2nd can only really be suspended above the root. However, the most often seen form of the “Dsus2” is [xx0230] - not one, but two D’s in there, so clearly the suspended note is not replacing them.

True, the chord form I just mentioned is missing the third… but I still feel my reasoning regarding suspending a note stands.

5

Interesting…

*A suspended chord is a chord in which the third is replaced or accompanied by either a Perfect fourth or a major second, although the fourth is far more common.

The term is borrowed from the contrapuntal technique of suspension, where a note from a previous chord is carried over to the next chord, and then resolved down to the third or tonic, suspending a note from the previous chord. However, in modern usage, the term concerns only the notes played at a given time; in a suspended chord the added tone does not necessarily resolve, and is not necessarily “prepared” (i.e., held over) from the prior chord.*

So I guess if the first chord were a C, the Dsus2 would imply that you’re carrying the note of E over from the chord of C…but if you chose to carry over the note of G, it would be Dsus4. But as the last part of the quote indicates, it isn’t strictly required that the chord be set up by the previous chord…in which case, some might call it D2 or D9.

6

The term “suspend” does not refer to raising a note, it refers to delaying it. This misunderstanding on your part may entirely explain your difficulty with the notation sus2.

7

Another tidbit from Wikipedia:

A mu major chord (signified by μ) is a somewhat unconventional name for an “add 2” or “add 9” chord. It is formed by adding a 2nd to a major triad; in other words, it is a chord constructed from the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th degrees of the major scale. The mu major chord differs from a sus2 chord as a sus2 chord does not contain a 3rd.

…

*The reference to this chord as “mu major” has been popularized by fans of the jazz-influenced rock group Steely Dan, as well as by the band members themselves. This chord is used extensively in their work, often arpeggiated at the end of musical phrases. The “mu major sound” is a distinctive idiom of Steely Dan’s style. In a 1989 interview with Paul Zollo[1], Walter Becker explained that the use of the chord developed from trying to enrich the sound of a major chord without making it into a “jazz chord”. *

ETA oops, looks like it won’t show the Greek letter mu.

8

[QUOTE=Le Ministre de l’au-delà]
D9 is a different animal because it is a dominant 9th, and ought to have the C in it, and it’s expected that it is going to resolve to a G chord (major or minor), or deceptively to a B minor, or in all sorts of really cool ways. But the D9 has a different sound because of that tritone between the F# and the C.
[/QUOTE]

Well, sure. But I didn’t say it should be called a D9, I said it should be called D(add9). Two very different things.

[QUOTE=Le Ministre de l’au-delà]
To me, the Dsus2 implies that the E is suspended and is going to resolve to the D. This also implies that the F# is already in the chord somewhere, which is not always the case.
[/QUOTE]

Here I have to disagree. The F# is definitely not present in a Dsus chord, if we’re talking about proper naming conventions.

[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]

The term is borrowed from the contrapuntal technique of suspension, where a note from a previous chord is carried over to the next chord, and then resolved down to the third or tonic, suspending a note from the previous chord. However, in modern usage, the term concerns only the notes played at a given time; in a suspended chord the added tone does not necessarily resolve, and is not necessarily “prepared” (i.e., held over) from the prior chord.
[/QUOTE]

Aha. So that does clear up one thing - I did indeed misunderstand where the term “suspension” came from (although since they specify resolving downward, I wasn’t entirely incorrect in my rationale). However, the second sentence of that definition is exactly the thing that bugs me about calling something a sus2 - in many songs, the Dsus2 was not preceded by a chord containing an E, so the note isn’t carring over. If that’s the case, why does it get to be called a suspended chord?

[QUOTE=Le Ministre de l’au-delà]
Chord symbol usage is not an exact science
[/QUOTE]

This phrase may actually be the ultimate answer to my question. You are very probably right, and if so, my only option is to (grudgingly) accept it [insert vague grumbling noises here]

9

[QUOTE=unstrung]
Well, sure. But I didn’t say it should be called a D9, I said it should be called D(add9). Two very different things.
[/QUOTE]

Absolutely two different things, but an easy mistake that many people make. My apologies if I was conveying information you already knew - I only did so in case further clarification was necessary.

If I see Dsus, I assume Dsus4, and you’re right, there’s no F# in a Dsus4. Dsus2 or D2 can have an F# in it if that’s the sound the composer wanted.

Another thought - I was playing some chart a couple of months back where the person who wrote it out used *2sus4 for chords where the third and the fifth were arrived at from below. In the case of D, this would mean start with (4) - 0, (3) - 0, (2) - 3, (1) - 0 and move to (4) - 0, (3) - 2, (2) - 3, (1) - 2. This wasn’t my favourite way of writing this out, but once we’d sorted it, it was cool.

10

[QUOTE=Le Ministre de l’au-delà]
Dsus2 or D2 can have an F# in it if that’s the sound the composer wanted.
[/QUOTE]

No. If it has the 3rd in it, then by definition it’s not a suspended chord. It’s then a triad with an added 9th.

11

[QUOTE=Le Ministre de l’au-delà]
Another thought - I was playing some chart a couple of months back where the person who wrote it out used *2sus4 for chords where the third and the fifth were arrived at from below. In the case of D, this would mean start with (4) - 0, (3) - 0, (2) - 3, (1) - 0 and move to (4) - 0, (3) - 2, (2) - 3, (1) - 2. This wasn’t my favourite way of writing this out, but once we’d sorted it, it was cool.
[/QUOTE]

This again speaks to your previous point about chord symbols not being an exact science, and I’ve definitely noticed the same thing when looking at sheet music from various places. I don’t have to like it though… :wink:

[QUOTE=Le Ministre de l’au-delà]
A Dsus2 or D2 can have an F# in it if that’s the sound the composer wanted.
[/QUOTE]

I see what you’re saying, but the term Dsus2 still bugs me a bit. I mean, for it to be suspended, the E (2nd) would need to be *replacing * the D (tonic). And once you’ve removed the D from a D chord, why would you still call it a D chord?

12

Well, my policy with *.2 chords is to play them with the third in, unless it doesn’t sound right, in which case I don’t.

Partly that’s based on the fact that the easy C2, A2, E2 and G2 chords all have thirds in them unless you mute the string(s) with the third. The easy D2 is the one that doesn’t have a third. It all boils down to what your ears, your taste or the bandleader tell you.

13

A chord should be called what it consists of. On a musical staff, this means D - E - A in some harmonic arrangement for Dsus2.

This doesn’t necessarily mean it will be fingered the same way on a guitar. Guitar chords are sometimes simplified for the player. (For instance, D - E - A can also represent an Asus4 chord and it might well be fingered the same way.)

14

This is why I hang out in guitar geek threads - this stuff is so lost on me. If you tell me - “see that’s what you play when you do the riff in Song X” then I would get it…

15

[QUOTE=Fish]
On a musical staff, this means D - E - A in some harmonic arrangement for Dsus2.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it’s probably better to talk about this in terms of a musical staff rather than a fretboard, actually…

Anyway, I guess it comes down to whether the E in the D-E-A combination really qualifies as a suspension. The music books I’ve got at home don’t really delve in to this (although I’m noticing that none of the ones discussing chord theory mention a sus2, only a sus4). Replacing the F# with the E does imply that the resolution would return from D-E-A to D-F#-A (though that resolution may not actually happen in a given piece of music).

The Wikipedia article regarding the musical concept of suspension also mentions retardation, an upward resolution (like the E resolving to F#). It refers to it as a type of suspension; however, after doing a Google search, I am not sure whether that is correct. It looks like about half of the links lead to pages that agree with Wikipedia, and half lead to pages that disagree and specify that suspension and retardation are two distinctly different things.

Wow, this is turning into a more involved question than I thought…

16

[QUOTE=WordMan]
This is why I hang out in guitar geek threads - this stuff is so lost on me. If you tell me - “see that’s what you play when you do the riff in Song X” then I would get it…
[/QUOTE]

Opening of “Anticipation”

[D9] We-
[D] ee; can
[G] never know about the
[D9] da-
[D] ys to come

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/c/carly_simon/anticipation_crd.htm

(Doesn’t show the little D9 to D changes, however)

17

[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
Opening of “Anticipation”

[D9] We-
[D] ee; can
[G] never know about the
[D9] da-
[D] ys to come

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/c/carly_simon/anticipation_crd.htm

(Doesn’t show the little D9 to D changes, however)
[/QUOTE]

Regardless of whether you call it Dsus2 or Dadd9, you definitely can’t call it D9 - check out Le Ministre de l’au-delà’s description of D9 up near the top of this thread.

18

[QUOTE=unstrung]
Regardless of whether you call it Dsus2 or Dadd9, you definitely can’t call it D9 - check out Le Ministre de l’au-delà’s description of D9 up near the top of this thread.
[/QUOTE]

IANA music theorist but Dadd9 would imply to me that we have the complete triad D/F#/A and, unless you’re playing fret two with your thumb, you have ADAD—no F#. D5add9?

Dsus2 would imply to me that it’s lower in the chord, not the top pitch with nothing above it.

But a lot comes down to the shortcomings of the guitar on my ignorance of theory. On a piano you could more easily put the E pitch exactly where you want it.

19

[QUOTE=WordMan]
This is why I hang out in guitar geek threads - this stuff is so lost on me. If you tell me - “see that’s what you play when you do the riff in Song X” then I would get it…
[/QUOTE]

You and me both. I have virtually no theory training and just learned by ear and patterns. I also don’t play classical (though I like it). My girlfriend is a classically trained violinist and pianist. Sometimes when I’m dickin around on the guitar, she analyzes my playing and tries to tell me what I"m doing. My response is always, “uh…I did what? Did it sound OK?”

Guitar players get all the chicks.

20

[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
IANA music theorist but Dadd9 would imply to me that we have the complete triad D/F#/A and, unless you’re playing fret two with your thumb, you have ADAD—no F#. D5add9?
[/QUOTE]

Good point. Yeah, I guess for the voicing they show on the page you linked, D5add9 would actually be most correct name.

[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]

Dsus2 would imply to me that it’s lower in the chord, not the top pitch with nothing above it.
[/QUOTE]

Also true. Guitar chord names do tend to be a little loosey-goosey that way. For example, the most commonly seen Dsus4 chord (spelled D-A-D-G, or [xx0233]) technically has the 4th an octave higher than it should be). I’ve learned to just go along with it… but the sus2 designation strikes me as an error not only in the octave, but also the function of the altered note (hence this thread).