[QUOTE=Scylla]
Nothing is odd about the claim.
What is odd is that those supporting it aren’t familiar enough with it to even know what they are supporting.
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by “supporting it”. Do you mean supporting the allegation as being true, or supporting the allegation as being OK,-- no big deal?
[QUOTE=John Mace]
What do you mean by “supporting it”. Do you mean supporting the allegation as being true, or supporting the allegation as being OK,-- no big deal?
[/QUOTE]
as being true.
Pjen seems to think that these things are all true in spite of the fact that he isn’t familiar with what they are.
It’s pretty clear that he hasn’t even skimmed the summary page of part I to see what it is he’s talking about.
[QUOTE=Scylla]
as being true.
Pjen seems to think that these things are all true in spite of the fact that he isn’t familiar with what they are.
It’s pretty clear that he hasn’t even skimmed the summary page of part I to see what it is he’s talking about.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t see that. Like I said, who wouldn’t know that air conditioned rooms are available at Gitmo? You are the one making the assumption about what other people know or don’t know and what other people have read or not read.
And your evidence for this strange assertion is what exactly?
Oh, is that it? OK. Bad pjen! Bad! Go lay down by your water dish!
Now, about these accusations…
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Like I said, who wouldn’t know that air conditioned rooms are available at Gitmo?
[/QUOTE]
Well, you’re assuming that, just like you did with the minibars.
Yeah, gotta watch those minibar assumptions. I though: “Hey, cool, free booze! And little cans of beer! What the fuck is a “macadamia nut”, anyway…”
[QUOTE=you with the face]
And your evidence for this strange assertion is what exactly?
[/QUOTE]
What strange assertion?
[QUOTE=John Mace]
I don’t see that. Like I said, who wouldn’t know that air conditioned rooms are available at Gitmo?
[/quote]
Una didn’t seem to know, nor Phen
Yes I am. Pjen claims that this is evidence enough to shit on the American flag, shackle and freeze Bush, etc. etc, but he does not appear to be familiar with the material. He asserts that it is corroborated by 1. The FBI, and 2. The maltreated. Had he even vaguely perused the document he would see that neither is true.
[QUOTE=elucidator]
Now, about these accusations…
[/QUOTE]
Ok. I’d love to talk about them. Which ones do you find credible enough at this time to accept as true?
[QUOTE=Scylla]
What strange assertion?
[/QUOTE]
A good approach, Scylla! If we all agree that you haven’t made any assertions in this thread, we’ll all be a lot happier.
[QUOTE=elucidator]
What the fuck is a “macadamia nut”, anyway…"
[/QUOTE]
At a hotel minibar? About $11.
Here are some quotes from the summary:
"Rumors that interrogator bragged about doing lap dance on d, another about making d listen to satanic black metal music for hours then dressing as a Priest and baptizing d to save him "
"W heard rumor that male d was dressed in female clothing, made up and given a lap dance by female prison guard. Was told this was a tactic to break the d and get cooperation "
"W observed d in a stress position - w/in regs of military techniques but outside MIOG "
“d pointed to marks on wrists from shackles, upset at wearing hood, alleged guards beat him. Claims he is innocent of any crime and was arrested while dining w/guests at his house. Two weapons found at his house; he said he got them 8-10 yrs ago. Insisted he was a simple farmer and allegations were false. Yet his hands were smooth”
“D says he was beaten unconscious at Camp x-ray. Guards entered cell unprovoked and spat and cursed at him, called him SOB, bastard and crazy. D rolled on stomach to protect self due to recent stomach surgery. Soldier jumped on his back, beat him in the face, then choked him till he passed out. Said he was beating him because he was a Muslim. Female guard also beat him and grabbed his head and beat it into the cell floor. D taken to hospital after”
“D put in isolation after a dispute over arguing with a guard over his food”
"D’s story re his arrest/innocence. D claims he was arrested by the Saudis under suspicion stemming from Khobar Towers bombing, sent to prison in Dammam where beaten for 2 weeks prior to interrogation. Detained 3 mos then released. Later detained again and released. Traveled to Bahrain and got 5 yr tourism visa from US embassy. After 2 months went back to Saudi Arabia to visit sick father. 8 mos later returned to US. Back and forth until 9/11. His travels were funded by Saudis, including his father. "
"W saw d w/bloodshot eyes and blood congealed to eyelashes, attaches photos
hw notes - “No. No other bruising to suggest he as hit. Looks like conjunctivitis or other eye infection rather than result of bruise”
"W heard of technique (not allowed by FBI agents) where a difficult d who would not cooperate would be left in shackles for extended time (12 hrs or more) and the AC turned way low or off.
hw notes “environment down - doesn’t seem excessive given DoD policy”
"observed short shackling to the floor, cold temperatures, loud music, strobe lights and left in interrogation room for long periods - consistent with Dod policy - not FBI policy "
“occasionally ds complained of inappropriate behavior i.e., incident in which d alleged female guard removed her blouse and, while pressing her body against a shackled and restrained d rom behind, handled his genatalia and wiped menstrual blood on his head and face as punishment for lack of cooperation”
“W observed women crying near the river, their homes had been destroyed by planes. Trucks full of people trying to surrender were blown up by planes. On 2d day after capture, d was put in a ditch by Northern Alliance people. Next day, he was allowed to jump into a truck and taken to Mazar-e-Sharif where he was forced into a metal “shipping”-type container w/about 100 men. The container was then closed and d blacked out due to lack of air. When he awoke, there were new holes in the container., The man next to him was dead. He thinks he was in the container 24 hours - only 20 men survived. When it opened he was at Sabergaan jail. The dead were put into a hole and buried, he heard that those too weak to get out of the container were as well. US soldiers arrived about a month later”
[QUOTE=Scylla]
Una didn’t seem to know, nor Phen
[/QUOTE]
I “didn’t seem to know?” That assumes a lot. All I said with respect to the issue of temperature was that the climate there was such that it could easily be cold enough to cause a prisoner to shiver, without the need for any mechanical devices. I didn’t say anything at all as to whether or not the prisoner was kept in an air conditioned room. Your initial post said that “Shaking from the cold? In Gitmo?” needed “substantiation”; it would be improper to guess what I knew or didn’t know based on your omission to do a quick search on a weather site. Your apparent assumption was that the climate there was too warm; my response was to show that the climate there, outside of any human influence, was in fact cold enough. This might be important if people were to dispute key facts of any allegation, such as the use of air conditioning as a discomfort/torture device in the first place.
Really, we’re done here.
[QUOTE=Scylla]
Here are some quotes from the summary:… US soldiers arrived about a month later"
[/QUOTE]
To what end do you belabor the hamsters? Wouldn’t a simple link have accompished the same?
And of what relevence is that last paragraph, outlining things that apparently took place before any of the detainees were even in American hands? You read this, of course. You meant for us to ponder that paragraph, one must assume. For a reason that, at this point, surpasseth all understanding.
Your many fans will likely be disappointed by this seemingly pointless excercise in cut 'n paste.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
How do you “order” a dog to “growl, bark and show his teeth”? Sounds a little complicated.
Y’know, unless he’s one of those superintelligent dogs like Lassie or Krypto or the Littlest Hobo.
[/QUOTE]
This is a standard part of guard dog training, to growl, bark, and show teeth on command. You’ve never seen a security guy, or an Army guy, or a cop, with a German shepherd on a leash, with the dog growling and barking at the end of his leash? They’re trained to do that on command. It’s called “guard and bark” or “bark and hold”.
[QUOTE=Scylla]
Una didn’t seem to know, nor Phen
[/quote]
Didn’t seem to know to you. See Una’s repsonse. I can’t speak for Pjen.
Some is verified by the FBI, some is hearsay. I woulnd’t be surprised if most people didn’t read the full report, but I see no reason to assume any particular person didn’t unless that person makes statments clearly contradicted by the report. I haven’t seen that here yet.
“Richard Nixon at his worst did not condone torture.”
Howard Dean NPR interview July 2006
[QUOTE=Scylla]
Nothing is odd about the claim.
What is odd is that those supporting it aren’t familiar enough with it to even know what they are supporting.
[/QUOTE]
This is a rant. If you want to engage in this sort of argument, I started a parallel thread in GD.
Stepping out of the Pit for a moment- the Air Con was used to induce cold- originally said by several British detainees. Why shit on the flag- similar outrage to squatting on the Koran. The FBI report parallels many of the things said by the British detainees on release. At the time I discussed this in GD many people just said ‘they’re terrorists, who can trust them’ now we know that the FBI has found the same material referenced in many ways. Bush, Rumsfeld on down lied. US Forces torture detainees.
BAck to the rant.
After a night of sleeping on it, I still feel that in a fair world the perpetrators would suffer the same or similar indignities as they have meted out to the innocents they kidnapped.
Wrap his head in duct tape, shackle him, shit on the stars and stripes infront of him and freeze the cunt. Hail to the Chief!
Oh, he’s suffering, in his fashion. The guy totally jones on adulation, it fills up the hole. You could see it in the State/Union Addy in 2002, how he loved lashing out with those applause lines and making those poor old shits stand up and cheer every fifteen seconds or so. He was creaming his jeans, it was better than sex, better than coke, better than Jesus.
So, yeah, he’s hurting. Not enough, but all we’re likely to get. More of the same, most we can expect.