dumbass anti-abortionists

wellll…I wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned that I agreed with the OP (having a hard time following along here?) To refresh your memory. The OP was BigDaddyD and he later said

“beagledave: Then we agree that this guy driving the truck is an ass. And being an ass generally doesn’t help convince others of your point of view.”

You can think that black men in prison reflect poorly on all black men …or that PETA nuts reflect poorly on all those concerned with animal welfare…be my guest…or you can think that BillyBob in the pickup reflects poorly on “Only Christians”…In any of those cases, I would not feel the need to defend the larger population against your extrapolation…hell it’s a standard tactic (extrapolating extreme behavior toward a larger population) used by political commentators all the time…Rush Limbaugh is probably the one who does it the most. You’re in good company. :rolleyes:

Alphagene: I don’t blame you. As I said earlier, I put this thread in the Pit because I wanted to bitch. So I’ll bitch some more. Before this thread is closed.

All those self-righteous ‘pro-lifers’ (especially those who are men and will never have to deal directly with the anguish involved in making the decision of whether to have an abortion) who try to prevent abortions using destructive, negative methods deserve to be repeatedly torn limb from limb for all eternity. At least a few million times before being cast down into the deepest pit reserved especially for the biggest hypocrites, but not until they’ve been sodomized repeatedly with a red hot Buick. Without lube. Then perhaps a thousand paper cuts followed by a vinegar and sea salt shower. And finally, a raging case of jock itch. All while fellating Satan and his minions. (No, the real Lord of the Underworld, you know, Saddam’s boyfriend)

Of course, those who do something about reducing abortions don’t have to worry.

I’m glad that you put the disclaimer in there, dude. Drain Bead hates it when I’m being fellated…


Yer pal,
Satan

*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, four weeks, one day, 20 hours, 54 minutes and 57 seconds.
8514 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,064.35.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 30 minutes.

David B used me as a cite!*

Just lookin out for your better interests.

Listen to me: IT SHOULDN’T reflect poorly. But to many people, myself NOT included, it DOES. That’s all.

I was, of course, speaking in the theoretical–that this person did have a fish, or something like that on his truck. However, I’m doing my best to find the statistics to calculate rough odds that he’s Christian (it’s taking a little bit, given that abortion is such a high profile issue that something as simple as a breakdown by religion gets swamped under propoganda). My guess, though, would be that it’s not a bad assumption (again, I’m speaking from a “acceptable range of error” standpoint, which doesn’t really apply to humans, but is still worth looking at).

Well, to begin with, some of your examples are pretty much true, to some degree. In fact, I do believe that a Bush/Cheney sticker implicates Republicans, to some degree, for the simple reason that they are the major party that is (more widely) opposed to abortion. The NRA would also get associated, to a lesser degree; there is a public perception that they are a “Repulican-supporting” group. Even though they are single-issue and actually donate to both parties (what better way to insure that you get what you want), they still tend to be associated with the political party that the anti-choice movement is. So, when you see the sticker next to the sign, it makes a “logical” connection.

The other ones mover farther away from things associated with abortion, so most likely the link wouldn’t be made. OTOH, if MLS decided to take a stand on abortion (boy, would that be weird), suddenly those two signs next to each other could mean something, even though MLS represents essentially none of the people who play soccer in the US. Or, if often enough when you see an anti-choice sign, you see a soccer sticker, there starts to be a correlation. It may not be a cause-and-effect correlation (so it’s in reality meaningless), but it’s very easy to mislead people with a non-causal correlation.

Interesting fact: People who ate Frosted Flakes as a child have lower cancer rates than those who didn’t. Of course, those who did are younger, so of course have lower cancer rates. Obviously, this is a meaningless correlation, but at the same time, this sort of concept is used in media all the time either to mislead intentionally, or because it wasn’t thought through properly. People buy it. The same is true here.

“if you do not believe in abortions, thats alright. i can understand how it would be difficult to “allow” them to go on, but i think it would be better if the situations of the wanted and already born children in the world were improved first, rather than concern ourselves so fanatically with the potential lives of potential humans. there is too much suffering of children in the world as it is…lets fix that rather than risk imposing an imagined pain on a fetus…”

Amen to that.

Another thing we need to work on is to encourage the pregnancy rate to drop, which would presumably make the abortion rate drop (can’t have one without the other). By this I mean make EFFECTIVE birth control more accessable, including financially accessable.

Example: My husband and I both work full-time and have health insurance. Qualchoice will generally cover birth control pills, but for some reason this doesn’t apply to CWRU employees (which my husband and I are). ONE pack of Pills costs around $30 and that adds up quickly, especially for couples such as us who are just scraping by. So I go down the street to the Free Clinic to get my exam and free pills, which I feel guilty about because I see women there who REALLY need a financial break even more than I do.

Push affordable (or free) birth control starting at the junior high level and watch the pregnancy and abortion rates drop. Everybody wins.

okay, well I’ll just fill in a bit here. Yes I have held signs. However I have also spearheaded fundraisers for a program that helps young mothers. I have organised clothing and ‘baby shower’ drives. Where a bunch of people get together for a baby shower type lunch and donate baby stuff and maternity clothing. This stuff is then donated to a group which helps un-wed or otherwise needy mothers. I volunteer during my summers from school at the Pro-Life offices in Vancouver, BC. I have have also done receptionist type work for a support group for Pregnant women with (seemingly) no alternatives. No I have not done counselling but that’s not far off.

That said, hopefully, I am not to be subjected to the tortures described earlier.

(by the by was that a Goats: the comic strip reference?.. Suddam/Satan boyfriend thing)

I have spoken with a number of women who have had abortions and are having trouble dealing with the aftermath. That’s something that isn’t often taken into account. Many women end up suffering extreme guilt and depression (often associated with post-partum) I don’t know know the percentages of these and could probably track down a cite but I’ll almost guarentee that it’d be from a biased site… I don’t know of any pro-chioce or ‘neutral’ organisations that would research the mental conditions of women after… this is not to say that all women suffer so. Far from it. but anyhoo… that’s a truth…

And I have a question…

Why is it that if a woman ‘chooses’ to carry a child to term the father is automatically expected to involve himself - at least finacially while if she ‘chooses’ to abort he doesn’t have a say?

And I agree, a great step in dropping the number of abortions would be to better teach people about contraception and responsible sex.

Whenever I read debates about abortion on American-dominated message boards I feel like I should just stay out of this whole issue.

Perhaps because the issues regarding abortion are not so emotively discussed here in Australia, I sometimes find it hard to relate to the extremist viewpoints of both sides of the issue. Because I truly think there is a great deal of common ground between both sides, and it often isn’t acknowledged.

I get very frustrated with what we here call the “right to lifer” viewpoint; the viewpoint which not only says that abortion can never, ever be a justifiable act, but is also against the very kind of education and access to contraception which might actually reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. I recognise that very few people hold such an extreme viewpoint, but the people who do are so vocal that they attract a disproportionate amount of attention; and they piss me off to the max.

I live in a country in which abortion is legal, but often remains inaccesible to those living outside the major population centres. I live in a vast land, in which there are many accredited medical facilities providing pregnancy termination services along with other specialised womens’ health care delivery (including maximum number of contraception options, cutting edge screening for breast and cervical cancer, etc). Sadly, though, many of my peers living in regional areas do not have access to these same kinds of facilities - their contraceptive options are limited to what their local GP (very often an elderly male, in rural areas) approves of prescribing, or what the one pharmacist in town is willing to stock, or a bizarre combination of both.

Very sadly, also, those very same regions in which women have extremely limited options for preventing pregnancy often have disproportionate levels of domestic violence and other social conditions into which a woman might not want to bring another child, or might not have the economic and social means to do so.

So just go to another town to consult a doctor, I hear you say? It’s an option that is totally outside of the financial reach of many rural-based women; you are talking of the travel costs running into at the very least hundreds of dollars, and in some places in this country, thousands of dollars. Amounts the family (or more particularly, the bloke) might miss from the housekeeping budget.

Even in urban areas, it would be all but impossible for my 14 year old daughter to obtain any reliable form of contraception without my consent. She could buy condoms and contraceptive foam at a pharmacy, but any more reliable option requires a visit to the doctor and a prescription. She’s only entitled to “free” medical treatment if she can produce my Medicare card - otherwise, she has to pay full price for both the consultation and whatever prescription the doctor gives her. Fine if she’s affluent; not so great if she isn’t, or she lives in a small town, or her parent refuses to acknowledge even the possibility of their child being sexually active.

Denial is a wonderful and self-protective thing; particularly if we are young and faced with an overwhelming situation which we don’t know how to deal with it. Leaving aside the situations where pregnancy is diagnosed at a late stage because women just didn’t have enough information about their bodies to even consider the possibility that they were pregnant (which, sadly, still happens, and which I regard as an indictment of the parents, and no-one else), I would submit that there are many situations in which young women in particular (but not exclusively) simply try to wish an undesirable situation away because it overwhelms them and they have no idea of how to deal with it. Do not young men do exactly the same thing? And they wish it away for so long that the post-coital pill and first trimester termination are no longer options. The woman across the road from me, who already has 3 children, didn’t “discover” she was pregnant this time until she was 27 weeks - she didn’t discover this because the asshole male in her life would have physically beaten her into going to an abortion facility and having the pregnancy terminated (as a pro-choice person, I fully support the right of a woman to carry a pregnancy to delivery if that is her choice, just as much as I support her right to terminate that pregnancy). By the way - this same male regards any evidence of her using contraception as proof that she is being unfaithful. She uses contraception, she’s an unfaithful slut; she doesn’t use it, she’s trying to “trap him” (I personally would like to rabbit- or bear- trap him, but that’s a whole other thread).

I love the people who made my first daughter’s birth special - everyone who pitched in and made sure she had gorgeous baby clothes and a crib when she came out of hospital, but very few of those people were there six months later let alone two years later. It might have been even better if her life mattered enough to those people for them to take an interest in it beyond those few short months during which she was only going to provide a “statistic” for either the pro-choice or the “right to life” lobby. But I don’t get too many letters from the “right to lifers” wanting to know how we’re doing these days or what she has achieved. I most certainly don’t get any letters now telling me how valuable she is and how interested the “right to lifers” are in her life and “by the way is there any other help we can give you?”.

That kind of interest comes from the same kinds of people - secular and religious, pro-life or pro-choice - who were always willing to support me through whatever decision I made in the first place, irrespective of the personal moral standards by which they chose to life themselves.

BTW - I’ve had an ectopic pregnancy; I had to have a tube - including a potential human being - removed in order to avoid bleeding to death. By anyone’s definition (whether pro-life or pro-choice), I signed that consent form knowing absolutely that I was removing all options of viability from that foetus and that makes it an abortion. Does anyone extremist want to argue with me that there are no medically justified abortions?

I think that many pro-choice people on this board have expressed their concern about the “gap” between which “foetal viability” becomes possible and our current laws overlapping. Yes, I do believe that ultimately we will have the technology which allows women the option of tranplanting their unwanted foetuses into the uteri of women who desperately want children - but that will not solve the moral and social issues of this debate. Neither will being able to grow aborted foetuses in vitro until they are post-term and able to be offered for adoption.

The common ground which we share is the desire for no unwanted pregnancies in this world - can we please work towards practical means of achieving that objective? And can we please all remain sensitive to the fact that not one of us - whether we are pro-choice or pro-life - has the right to tell a woman or couple who have been advised that a woman is carrying a totally non-viable foetus the best method of which she should be delivered of that foetus? I really think anyone in that situation is suffering enough without any of us making moral judgement about which medical procedures they use in order to lessen their pain or make their experience bearable.

Damn - knew I should have stayed out of this thread…

Not only did I manage to post in the pit without using the 4 letter F and C words, but more importantly, I managed to make a very long post regarding a subject about which I feel passionately without using those “other” F and C words.

Does this mean I should start an “Attack the opinion, not the poster” thread?

No, please don’t answer that - we’ve had enough of those lately.