The other day, I saw some jackass in a pickup with billboards of mutilated fetuses (feti?) on the side. Why? To make me lose my lunch? No one is pro-abortion, you dumbfuck. No one wants to kill babies, born or unborn, except other fascists. If you really want to prevent abortion, stop chaining yourself in front of clinics, and adopt an otherwise unwanted child. Or help single mothers. Do something constructive. You’re just wasting your time, and making other Christians look like idiots. And, pissing me off. Shit fuck cock suckers. grrr.
Umm, no. Maybe to remind you that there are 2 sides to the issue.
Now, I am pro-choice. But I am not going to deny someone their right to have an opinion different than mine. Sure, I wish they would not demonstrate outside abortion clinics intimidating women going in. Just like they wish women wouldn’t go in.
I don’t like radicals on either side. Shooting of abortion doctors is bad (that means you Kopp). If they have a belief that abortion is wrong, then simply present the information in a sane way. Let the people affected make the decision.
This confrontational shit that goes on helps no one.
Let me preface by saying that I am pro-life. Very, on all issues. I agree with most of the substance of your OP, about helping out women who think that this is their only option. I find the violent protests reprehensible and I in no way support the murder of anybody to advance a cause.
That said… if the cold hard facts of what an abortion actually is make you queasy, perhaps it’s time to rethink your position? Face it, that is what happens to a fetus, whether you like to see it or not. I find the ostrich approach to reality a bit untenable.
You know liposuction makes me quesy too. I’m not about to oppose it if someone starts showing me pictures of bloody lumps of fat. Also, many of the pictures that anti-abortionists hold up are faked, are not actual pictures of fetuses, doctored in other ways. I can’t speak for the one’s on the pick-up truck, but I wouldn’t be suprised if they weren’t real.
You assume
=> he chains himself in front of clinics
=> he hasn’t adopted a child
=> hasn’t helped single mothers
=> hasn’t done anything constructive
all that from billboards on a pickup…amazing
(and no, I don’t believe in that approach to communicating a pro life message…I also don’t believe in unfounded wild assed assumptions)
Here in good Catholic Ireland we have a movement called SPUC (IIRC The Society for the protection of the unborn child). While I have no problem with them protesting about abortion*. I do have a problem with them standing on two main streets in Dublin and showing these pictures really blown up and on placards and signs. These are streets where young children are walking down. I have seen several children visibly upset by these images.
Their love for kids obviously ends when the baby is born. :rolleyes:
- Abortion is not legal in Ireland. Doctors and Clinics can now give info. to people as to how to go about getting abortions in Britain.
And, of course, you assume that the protester assumes that the women getting abortions are all self absorbed promiscuous whores who couldn’t fit a baby into their busy schedules, rather than rape victims or women who will die without an abortion.
Fair enough. I don’t think it’s the same thing, though. Are you actually offended by the pictures of liposuction? Perhaps I am mistaken (would not be the first time), but that’s what I gathered from the OP, that he was actually offended by the pictures themselves. They show the reality of what happens to a fetus. Inappropriate for an area where children may see them? Of course. Inappropriate as part of the protest? I’m not convinced.
In response to something I did miss in the OP…
Did he have some identifying tag marking him as a Christian? If he did, you failed to mention it. Not all anti-abortionists are Christians, you know.
I’m confused here. Is this directed to beagledave? The OP? And leaving all that aside… women who get abortions because of rape or because they will die without one account for I think 7% of all the women who seek abortions. Not a very convincing argument.
eh…proof dick wad? I said nothing about the thoughts of the protester…I DID say that I don’t approve of the protester’s methods…and that I don’t approve of unfounded assumptions…which of course you just did…
**
Way to assume the stance of over six billion people on abortion, BDD.
I used to know some people who thought an abortion was a fairly mild process. They were unhappily surprised to learn that it isn’t always. Opinions changed on the stance. SO it was constructive. Perhaps not the best way to go about effecting a change, but it worked.
Not all of us Christians are anti-abortion. What makes you think this person was?
Since when did pissing you off constitute a crime?:rollseyes:
I give it a 2.0.
It certainly is the same thing. I, for one, would be offended by the gratuitous display of bloody bits-o-anything in a public area–particularly if children are likely to see it.
Which is not to say I want to deprive this anti-choice twit of his right to have the stupid things up there; I just think he’s an inconsiderate punk for it.
As for the Christian thing, it may not be the ridiculous assumption you’re making it out to be. First off, a massive portion of America’s population is Christian. So right off, odds are pretty good. Then add the fact that many of the anti-choice organizations are Christian, and his assumption becomes even less absurd. Finally, figure in that the truck may have bumper stickers or a Jesus fish–and in the case of anybody this devoted, probably does.
Is it an asumption? Duh.
But it’s a pretty good one, that could easily be supported by obvious evidence that y’all don’t know about.
I just want to say something because this has some relevance on a conversation I had last night.
I am pro-life. If my GF got pregnant, I would want her to keep the baby. HOWEVER, I will not support politics in the abortion issue because although I am pro-life, I believe these clinics should stay open. The discussion with my firend revolved around me saying I was pro-life, but then taking a pro-choice stance in politics.
It’s very simple. I believe abortion is wrong, that child could grow up to discover the secret to cold fusion or a cure for MS. We don’t know what the world is losing by taking this child out of it. But I don’t live under the delusion that I can convince everyone to see things the way I do. If we make abortion illegal, people will just go somewhere else and find another way to perform the abortions. We can either let them be legal where they are (for the most part) performed in clean, caring conditions by a doctor, or we can let them go to a back alley with a coat hanger.
So I agree with the OP that this man was an idiot. Not for the same reasons, but because he feels his views on the subject are the only right views and that it is acceptable to display your views in a totally innappropriate matter. If I wanted to protest freedom of expression by traipsing about nude down the streets of the city, how is that more inappropriate than showing pictures of a dead fetus? In both cases, the display is appropriate to the protest, but not for public display where children may see.
I know what you were getting at in your post. In fact, I was agreeing with you on the part of assumptions being bad. I was merely doing it in a roundabout way.
And my dick is perfectly straight. But thanks for at least looking in it’s direction.
Again, I am not convinced that showing people the reality of an abortion is a bad thing. Displayed in public, where children can see it? Yes. But in and of themselves? No.
Read my post again, and this time for comprehension, m’kay? All I wanted to know was whether or not there was something to identify this person as a Christian. The ridiculous assumption comes when people like the OP say that hanging pictures of dead fetuses makes all Christians look like idiots. To the unthinking, perhaps. Those with a few brain cells can figure out that because one person in a particular group feels one way, it doesn’t automatically mean that all people in that particular group agree.
Hey now…thems fightin’ words…I ALWAYS stand at least 2 urinals apart 
I’ve heard this argument alot, and I think its just plain silly. I mean by that reasoning we could be taking out the next Hitler, or the anti-Christ. There are plenty of reasons to want the number of abortions to drop. I agree a society in which every baby coneived is wanted and will be carried to term by a mother who will be loving and able to support the child would be great. But this is reality. Abortions happen.
About the OP specifically I don’t find the pictures disgusting, most of the time they aren’t realistic which makes me annoyed but peopl have a right to display hideous material. I’m not sure how effect or civil it is, but their allowed to.
ACtually, Crunchy-you are pro-choice. YOu believe everyone should make the decision for herself, am I correct?
i just kinda want to make a point…i dont really know how, though, except to say that people have abortions for so many reasons…the effect on the fetus is, to me, one of the least important factors. sure, the methodology of abortions is an important clinical issue, but the situation of the mother (father too) is so much more important. be it rape, incest, prostitution or lack (failure) of contraceptive use, the issue should be about what the mother is going to have to go through. is the life of a fetus (one that we cannot say if it will be good or bad) worth inflicting even 9 months of unwanted physical situation onto the mother?
pregancy is hard. it has complications. and sometimes, its just something the mother wont care to go through. a woman pregnant with a child she doesnt want, without the option of abortion, might simply neglect the needs of that fetus - drinking, smoking,taking drugs, malnutrition, whatever. who is to say she is able to take care of herself to begin with, let alone a fetus inside her womb? the result (fetal alcohol syndrome, drug dependancy at birth, the simple effects of infant and child, and teenager, negelect…)might be worse than the distorted fetus depicted on that truck. at least, clinically, the aborted fetus cannot feel. an unwanted child can, and will. there are good homes in adoptive families, but there are bad ones too, and many children never get adopted. perhaps it is easier to simply end an unwanted situation, than to risk making it worse.
if you do not believe in abortions, thats alright. i can understand how it would be difficult to “allow” them to go on, but i think it would be better if the situations of the wanted and already born children in the world were improved first, rather than concern ourselves so fanatically with the potential lives of potential humans. there is too much suffering of children in the world as it is…lets fix that rather than risk imposing an imagined pain on a fetus…
this is a hugely complicated issue, i know. there are so many sides that i havent looked at. but i can say (and i am not ashamed to admit it) that there is one side i have looked at, and i have seen a different side to the issue. i had a pregnancy scare at 19…i was going to university on a scholarship, my relationship with my boyfriend was great(were still together, btw), and everything else in my life was going great…except for that. beleive me, i thought of every side. i considered abortion, and for me, the way my life was, i think i would have done it, though i used to think i could never go through with it. i want children…i have always wanted children…but not that early in my life. i wanted MY potential to be uncovered first…i couldnt sacrifice it for a child who might not get the opportunities i had.
i am pro-choice. i believe in the right of the mother to choose her own fate, and it hurts me to see people so angry at one another, often without ever having been in a position to truly understand the situation.
sorry that was a little long-winded…i hope i got my point across…
http://www.wcla.org/images/lest.gif
This is a woman as she was found in a hotel room in 1964, the victim of a back-alley abortion. That is how she doed - scared, naked and bleeding.
How about putting that image on a poster and picketing these churches that dare to try and legislate their own personal moralities without even thinking once about the real repercussions because not everyone thinks like they do…
Yer pal,
Satan
*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Six months, four weeks, 4 hours, 52 minutes and 27 seconds.
8448 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,056.01.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 0 minutes.
David B used me as a cite!*
Oh bugger off.
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My point was that even without identifying marks, the assumption that this person is a Christian is pretty damn good (we’ll go w/ 5% error?).
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The actions of an individual do reflect on the group. Sure, not everyone in the group says, believes, or acts the same way, but when one member makes an ass out of themselves, everybody associated looks bad. Why do you think that every election year each party tries to distance itself from members with notorious indiscrestions (think Clinton, Gingrich, et al)? Sure, one shouldn’t say “This Christian is a jerk, cause I once met another that is”. And in fact, one shouldn’t assume that “Christians are jerks” because a few happen to be. But if enough of em start acting like jerks, that second thought becomes more and more accurate. Of course, this guy is a drop in the bucket, but eventaully, enough of em start to add up.
{Note: I fixed the coding. Lynn}
[Edited by Lynn Bodoni on 11-06-2000 at 02:50 AM]