These guys are there all day. I drive an hour or more each way to the range and back. Are you saying I should just sit around and not shoot all day because the sound of gunfire at a range annoys hunters?
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The range has 3 sections with 20 or so seats each - 25 yards, 50 yards, and 100 yards. Because the 50 was empty, we took up position there. The people that complained, assumably, were from the 100 yard range, because that’s where the range master was before he came to us. So we were at least 50+ yards apart.
They were 50 yards or so to my right. And it’s not clear who was there first - people were coming and going all day.
To be clear, someone has to tell me why it’s discourteous to practice rapid fire on a firing range that allows it. I honestly don’t see it. If there are cracks of gunfire going off at random times, what does it matter if it’s from 5 slow firing shooters or me?
Again, I ask, is it discourteous for the muzzle loader guy to send a cloud of smoke my way? Can I tell the range master to tell him to stop until I leave?
I honestly don’t get it. The rules allow rapid fire. I’m perfectly safe. You expect to hear gun shots at a gun range.
Do you think my firing was interfering with their shooting? Why? They have hearing protection, and they’re getting random shots all the time.
I think this ties into what I was ranting about. They always give me that “You can’t hunt with that!” attitude, this condescending look. And like I said, the one guy harassed me about the magazine capacity just to get on my case. This could be the same thing - half the hunters have this condescending view towards people who are shooting military weapons. They wanted to hassle me because I went to “their” range, and bitched about me to the range officer.
Is my rapid fire somehow making them unable to function, whereas sudden LOUD bursts from someone’s big bore rifle isn’t affecting them at all?
I assert this: Half the damn hunters look down at people who shoot military guns. They’re always giving me attitude. They feel that they have some right to ‘own’ the range, and they try to harass us to get us off of it.
Rapid fire doesn’t break their concentration. I’m 50-100 yards away from them making steady, consistent fire. Their concentration would be far more affected by the guy with the loud ass shotgun 5 feet away from them.
They just have this “fucking kids with their semiautomatic weapons” condescending attitude, and they have to give me shit, even when I leave them alone.
You forget that the event I described is only a symptom of the overall problem I’m ranting about. Ever since I started shooting, I consistently get this “You can’t hunt with that, you stupid asshole kid with your big bad military weapon” condescending bullshit attitude. Even if the range master hadn’t stopped me, I’d still be giving out a big “FUCK YOU!” to all the assholes who decide it’s their place to try to condescend me.
It’s, perhaps, something you don’t see until you’re put into the position. I have very little choice about where I can shoot my rifle - the nearest public non-pistol range is this one, and it’s 50+ miles away.
In rural areas, there tends to be an automatic discrimination against people who shoot military type weapons. I’ve talked to fellow enthusiasts about it, and the “what do you need THAT for?”, in your face, condescending attitude is almost universal.
We want to have fun and practice. We generally don’t get in anyone’s face. But we’re discriminated against anyway. There’s a bias against us.
This is why the gun rights community is losing on all fronts. We can’t even fucking support each other to fight for our cause. I support everyone’s right to bear arms, and will fight any government infringement into that right, whereas hunters will gladly advocate ‘assault weapons’ bans, and stuff, ‘as long as they don’t touch my deer rifle’.
When there’s so much in fighting amongst the firearms community, there’s no way we can win. And by and large, most of the military type weapon shooters I know are very tolerant guys. If anyone asks me about my rifle, I tell them all about it, and let them fire off a mag or two. I want to encourage responsible firearms ownership from everyone. I don’t have this elitist “if you’re not hunting, then what’s the point?” attitude that let’s the anti-rights crowd gradually encroach upon us.
I never try to ‘show off’ or anything like that. I’m there to have fun and practice. But from the very first time I went to the range, I started getting this attitude. And I’ve talked to my fellow enthusiasts, and they mostly get this attitude.
It’s harmful to the firearms community in general, and specifically annoying to me, because I’m being condescended and discriminated against simply because I choose to shoot that type of weapon.
Well, yes. But only because the information I had to make my judgement was incomplete. After seeing the answers to my subsequent questions, I can understand your frustration. With this additional info, I’d say your actions were in no way a breech of courtesy. The range I shoot at http://www.scsclub.org/ doesn’t have quite this much space on the firing line. Although, I still have to say that allowing someone, anyone, to shoot from behind me without an embankment 'tween me and him would make me very uncomfortable. My club has totally separate areas for the 65-, 100-, 250- and soon to come 1000-yard range.
As for the “discrimination,” yeah, I’m sad to say it does exist. Makes me kinda angry, too, that all types shooters can’t work together for the benefit of the sport. But hell, my club holds an AK/SKS tournament every month. I think there was about 40 participants at the most recent one.
Did you make the range officer aware of the situation as you saw it? I’d suggest, if he wasn’t willing to listen to your side of the story, a letter to your board of directors might be a decent idea. And if there are others who like to shoot as you do, perhaps they’d consider doing the same.
No problem. My opening rant didn’t contain enough information to really indicate the whole situation.
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They weren’t behind me… the range is layed out in a line, with an embankment seperating each section. On the far left is the 25 yard range, with 20 seats spaced 4-5 yards apart, then there’s 20 yards or so of a seperator embankment, then the 50 yard range with 20 seats, and another seperator, and then the 100 yard range. It’s all laid out in a row, short range on the far left, far range on the right.
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I have no anti-hunter bias - I’m generalizing my rant and saying that only about half the hunter types I run into seem to display this attitude. I came into the gun community hoping that there’d be an open and friendly community - and it largely has been - except for the rural hunter type, half of which seem to feel an obligation to give me attitude.
I went to a few get togethers of mostly military weapon shooters, and it was the most courteous place… You could just go up and talk to the guy, he’d give you a history of his weapons, gave you his own ammo to shoot, etc. Everyone was very friendly and supportive of each other, and there was no elitism of condescension.
However, at the public range, I get all sorts of looks because… how dare I not have a deer gun? It’s unfortunate. I truly wish the gun enthusiast community was less adversarily.
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There’s actually a sizable portion of people in the range I go to with people with ARs, AKs, SKSes, etc. Usually I can easily go up and talk to those people, I’ve never encountered any sort of negative attitudes with fellow military rifle enthusiasts. The worst you have to deal with is, sometimes, “HK-snobs” - guys with the $4000 HK rifles who think your stuff is a toy.
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To be honest, I didn’t have all that much ammo to spend that day, and I didn’t want to get on his bad side, so I just agreed with him. If something similar happens next time, I might go ahead and object.
Btw, ironically, sometimes we go down to the 25 yard range to seperate ourselves from the bulk of the hunter types at 100 - and the range masters there kick us out, because they don’t allow centerfire rifles at the 25 yard range. There’s no logical reason for this - the dirt stop behind the range is practically a hill - and it’s no different from any of the other ranges - they just have some arbitrary ‘no centerfire rifles on the 25 yard range’ rule. Actually, it’s not even a rule, just some of the range officers yell at me for it.
If it becomes a consistent issue, I’ll probably look into that. In this particular case, I just let it go.
Tranquilis, I was reading the web page of the club you posted, and I very much wish that I had somewhere like that to shoot. Where I go, it’s very formal, very limited, paper targets only - no fun tournaments or anything like that.
I’ve been looking into clubs here, but they all seem to be very exclusive, and expensive.
There isn’t an enbankment directly between us. If I look to my right, I can see them. There is an embankment, though, that seperates the two ranges - but it starts just forward of the shooting area. So if I were standing down range, I wouldn’t be able to see their range - but if I’m in the shooting area, I can look and directly see them.
Damn, UncleBeer, at first I thought your club was in Sandusky, rather than Sandusky County. I was thinking of attending one of the events as a guest, since Sandusky is only 80 miles or so - but Sandusky county is more like 120.
My friends and I may make a road trip out there sometime, actually, for the AK/SKS competitions. If we’re allowed, that is - do you happen to know if AK-74s and AK-74 .223 conversions are acceptable?
I pictured it as an adjacent booths kind of thing, in which case your rapid firing would be very distracting and rude. I was picturing your hot brass ejecting onto the por schmuck next to you trying to take a bench shot.
50 yards makes a difference.
Still, I’ll offer a suggestion. Practice double-taps. Anything else is impractical. Accuracy drops off so fast after the second shot in a rapid fire sequence that you’re best off limiting yourself to doubletaps. So says the Navy Seals and the Recon Marines anyway.
They’r not as irritating as a string of shots, and will probably help you improve faster.
Oh, no, not at all. This is a very open, fairly large range where on an average day, people can easily be 20 yards away from each other. I understand why blasting right next to some guy dumping brass on him would be rude - I wouldn’t do that. I was halfway across the range, the closest guy to me was 40 yards to my left.
And the range rules limit you to 3 round bursts. And actually, I’m becoming quite skillful at them. I can keep all 3 rounds on a 11x17" paper target at 50 yards firing as fast as I can. I’ve got pretty practiced muzzle control, and the ak-74 is an inherently low recoil system.
Lemme get back to you on that, Señor. I’ll go ask through our yahoo group. And yeah, for the most part this is a pretty laid back group. Dues are $30 a year + a one-time $100 land-acquisition fee. I think we’ve got just about 500 members right now. Unfortunately, it’s about a hundred mile round-trip from home. My old club closed almost two years ago now; the old story, the city’s encroaching. I loved that place, less than 3 miles from my door. It was pretty small, but a great place to shoot handguns.