E.T: Friend or Foe?

To paraphrase host Morgan Freeman on a recent episode of Through the Wormhole, “many scientists today believe our first contact with extraterrestrials visiting Earth is more likely to be aggressive than peaceful.”

Certainly, such an encounter would not be like our opponent bringing a knife to a knife fight, or even bringing a gun to a knife fight; it would be like them bringing a cache of ICBMs to a snowball fight. So, let’s hope aggression coupled with super-intelligence is not common in the Universe.

So, do the odds really favor super-intelligent beings being aggressive and also motivated to visit Earth? I think not, for a few reasons:

· We’re agressive, they must be too: fallacy. The point was made that humans have advanced to the point of putting a probe on Titan, and we’re still a war-like society (implying that evolved intelligence does not preclude aggressiveness, which is a self-evident point). I think this is a red herring. An intelligence that has harnessed interstellar or intergalactic travel will be an order of magnitude more advanced than one only able to shoot a probe to a nearby moon, so it’s not an apples to apples equivalency.

Tired tropes to the contrary, it’s safe to say that humans are the most intelligently advanced species on Earth and also the most empathetic. It’s a short road from empathy to altruism. It’s equally apparent that lower intelligences on Earth, arthropods for example, exhibit no empathy—trigger an orb weaver’s vibratory sensory nerves and he’ll wrap, tenderize and drink you with no remorse, even if you’re his mate (we’re assuming, in this scenerio, that you’re a spider, not a human with some type of arachno-fetish :)).

Advance the intelligence quotient to mammalian proportions and we start to see examples of empathy. I believe accounts of porpoises saving humans, humpback whales protecting seal pups from orcas, and even orcas saving seal pups that are in distress* are clear examples of inter-species altruistic behavior (not fully developed, but at least embrionic, with potential to grow). So, at least with regard to life on Earth (which could very well share the same type of nucleotide template with all life in the Universe), it appears that advancement in intelligence not only goes hand-in-hand with advancement in technology, but also with advancement in compassion as a species. As a species whose intelligence has advanced only to we-can-put-a-probe-on-a-nearby-moon level, it’s not surprising that we’ve still got a lot of aggression to evolve away from. But, as John Lennon may have sung it, *“you have to admit it’s getting better, a little better all the time”. *When (if) we, as a species, reach we-can-travel-to-the-next-galaxy level intelligence, I think it’s a safe bet we’ll treat other species even better than we do now. I think low intellegence favors absolute aggression; human-level intellegence favors a mixture of aggression/non-aggression and super-intellegence favors absolute non-aggression.

·Aggressive civilizations may not survive long enough to threaten us. With our still, admittedly war-mongering and luke warm-environmentally sensitive natures, if humans possessed truly planet-destructive weapons or resource-depleting machines, given enough time, we’d probably use them and never reach the level of technology necessary for us to threaten any extra-terrestrial civilization. We’ll kill ourselves before we can kill them. The same rule applies to them.

·Would they really come all this way for inorganic resources? You’ve got to figure, super-intelligent civilizations, if they exist, are probably dispersed pretty far and apart throughout the universe—not star systems apart, but galaxies apart. I’m confident that intergalactic travel, no matter how advanced the technology has evolved, will always be an expensive trip. Surely, any civilization from another galaxy will be able to find whatever inorganic material they need much close to home.

·Would they really come all this way for organic resources? What, they’re going to travel all this way just to eat us? How would they even know we taste good or don’t cause indigestion? It would be like booking a first class flight from LA to Paris just to order your first plate of escargot (i.e. stupid idea: they have snails in LA; you may not like snails; foreign snails may give you the runs; French people are odd and don’t like you). You’ve got to figure a super-intelligent civilization has harnessed the technology to grow food domestically, or at least find a planet of dumb life-forms to eat much closer to home. Travel all this way to make slaves of us? Again, synthetic slaves (e.g. robots) would be much cheaper.

·Would they travel all this way to find a ready-made habitable planet? This, I believe, is the most compelling argument to envision an aggresive extra-terrestrial civilization visiting Earth. In this case, the risk/benefit ratio may favor traveling far for a big payoff. But, still I ask, at that level of technology, wouldn’t it simply be more cost-effective to terraform a local planet for those aggresive civilizations with the know-how?

Conclusion: I’m not arguing that super-intelligent civilizations, if they exist at all, are necessarily all non-aggressive and benevolent in nature, just that there should be proportionally more of them than those with aggressive natures. And, even if there were equal portions of both types, it would be the benevolent ones who’d be more likely to travel far distances to visit us. A civilization seeking only resources would be motivated to find them close to home, as cheaply as possible. But, pushing the frontier, visiting as many civilizations as possible, would be the sine qua non of an advanced benevolent civilization bent on a mission of intergalactic good will. Perhaps they would even be extra-motivated to reach us first, ahead of any world-conquering campaigns their advanced reconnaissance get wind of, to champion our excistance and act as our protector.

Debate?

Bonus Question: On the same episode or TTW, they discussed ways in which an advanced extra-terrestrial civilization could send a message that we would successfully receive. They mentioned the limitations of a couple obvious methods (e.g. broadcasting any type of electro-magnetic signal would only be intercepted by us if we were listening at the exact moment the signal passed Earth; any type of hard evidence left on Earth before we were around would most likely be irretrievably decomposed and buried by now). But one scientist proposed a very novel method that could have been used to leave us a “you are not alone” type message long before we even evolved into humans: manipulating the nucleotide bases in non-expressed areas of our DNA into non-random sequences. Since large parts of our DNA are non-vital and passed on through speciation, this would be a harmless, virtually permanent method of contact. Question-1: is this, or is this not one of the coolest ideas you’ve ever heard? Question-2: do you think our DNA contains a message? If so, what do you think it is? My guess is something along the lines of, “don’t take any wooden nickels.”

*I recall a documentary from a while back showing a pair of orcas “playing catch” with a seal, flipping him high in the air, whale nose to whale nose, till dead, then they ate him. Certainly, from a human perspective this was a mean-spirited act of torture…and, who knows, maybe it is from a whale’s perspective, too. Days later, they filmed the same pair of orcas come upon a seal pup in distress, miles off the patch of ice from where he originated. The orcas took turns gently nosing the pup back to his ice flow, then carefully nuzzled him onto terra firma, into the waiting flippers of the wee pup’s tear-stricken mom…(ok, I embellished that last part for effect, but, you get the idea). Orcas appear to be in lockstep with humans with regard to their agression/non-aggression evolution. Gentle brutes.

Yeah, what do we have that they need that they can’t get from a million other empty places? If they make the effort to cross the interstellar void to visit us, it’s not because we have special magic water they can’t find elsewhere.

I would love to discuss the fascinating theory that with technological advancement comes greater compassion for other species.

But right now I have to leave the world-wide web that allows us to communicate and receive information from our homes as if by magic, using a computer that was undreamed of a few decades ago.

You see, my lunch is ready, and so I have to go eat pieces of a cow’s muscle that were chopped off her carcass after she was herded into an abbatoir, stunned and bled to death hanging from hooks.:smiley:

Just joking. I have already eaten my piece of dead cow between two slices of bread.

Seriously, I DO believe humanity has become more and more compassionate no matter how many cases of Hiroshima or Auschwitz you care to point to.

The modern English, who would probably lynch someone for being cruel to animals, are only a few generations away from their ancestors who enjoyed bear-baiting, in which a bear would have its claws torn out and then be chained and torn apart by a pack of dogs. Great fun for the whole family.

The French used to love throwing huge baskets full of live cats on the bonfires celebrating St. John’s day (June 24). Since cats were said to be agents of the devil, the horrible screams that came from the fire were said to be the sound of demons returning to hell.

The problem is, we don’t even know what compassion or pity or gentleness are in our own species, where these feelings come from or how and why they evolved. Did they confer some advantage in evolutionary terms?

The technology=compassion theory has a lot of flaws. Highly compassionate religions like Jainism and Buddhism were founded thousands of years ago in a very low-tech age. The Holocaust was perpetrated by one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world.

Can we just assume that ETs, who might have followed a very different path of evolution, would even possess compassion? Perhaps their evolutionary advantages were that they were emotionless, logical and very obedient to authority. Kind of like Nazis, you notice.

Maybe simple logic would tell them that if the Earth is a beautiful planet with temperatures and atmosphere of the kind they require , and that the only fly in the ointment is a pushy primate called humans, they would keep a few of us to put in zoos or for study, and exterminate the rest of us WITHOUT THE LEAST BIT OF MALICE!

ET scientists studying the humans that were allowed to live would not even think to ask about compassion, because the very idea is unknown to them. When they see compassionate behaviour by humans in the lab, they would be confused.

Compassion is a feature of social grouping. Social grouping is a feature of civilisation. It’s not a coincidence that human rights is an evolving facet of our society. And we can’t even make it to our moon right now.

I sort of agree with your point, but that was Paul. John’s part was It can’t get no worse.

Oh fer Chrissake! Not one of those moonlanding-was-a-hoax idiots!:rolleyes::dubious:

I don’t think it was.

Nazis were real good at social grouping, very advanced technologically, and in most cases very civilized (Herman Göring could charm the pants off anyone, even to the point of getting his jail guard to bring him poison so he could kill himself)) but they left a lot to be desired when it comes to compassion for jews, gypsies, mental patients, gays, union leaders, Communists, etc.

Are you claiming we have vehicles ready to go that can put a human back on the moon at this time?

Oh, you mean we really can’t afford to do it right now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well, to be more precise, my theory is more along the lines of: with intellectual advancement you’re more likely to find greater compassion toward other species. I made a corollary that with greater intellectual advancement you’re also more likely to find more technological advancement. But, I made no correlation between technological advancement and compassion toward other species. However, since you put that on the table, I do believe there is at least a loose correlation between the two.

Other than that, I pose just 2 questions to your thesis:

  1. Of those who’ve murdered cows, leaving them hanging from hooks, or those who’ve eaten said cows between 2 slices of bread, or those who’ve dropped bombs on Hiroshima, or those who’ve gassed Jews in Auschwitz, or those who’ve engaged in bear-baiting, or those who’ve thrown baskets of cats onto bonfires (those damned French, again)…have any of them mastered inter-galactic space travel?

I didn’t think so.

  1. Walking down the street, would you rather come face-to –face with an average person, or an average 6-foot tall Black Widow spider?

I’m not saying that humans are compassionate. I’m saying that humans are more compassionate than spiders and less compassionate that beings with super-intelligence.

You make good points, but have you eliminated the possibility of an advanced race of beings that evolved without any compassion at all? I believe for example that being intelligent enough to understand math is a sine qua non of advancement.

But who says compassion necessarily needs to arise in the course of evolution to a higher civilization? We know that it seems to go have a certain relationship with the advancement of HUMAN civilization. But is compassion a necessary item that we must pick up on the path opf evolving into an intelligent species?

Are we certain about the role compassion plays in evolution?

I repeat, could a species evolve to higher civilization with the logical thinking, lack of emotion, and obedience to authority as their main features? Could they be sucessful without a drop of compassion in them?

We take you now to Galactic Broadcasting’s interview with a Valtonian Family.

Valtonian: "We do not eat our babies because the High Leader commanded us not to. Although our babies contain much food protein, the Leader told us it is logically counterproductive to the growth of our species if we consume our babies. So we care for them, feed them and raise them.

Interviewer: Do you ever feel you might like to eat your baby?

Valtonian: I do not understand your question. Once the Leader has told us not to do something, how could we possibly want to do it? Your question makes no sense.

Interviewer: Your baby looks just like you.

Valtonian: No, he could not possibly look just like me, unless we were identical twins, which is impossible since I contributed the sperm that led to his conception and was born well before him. Having my DNA, he would likely share some physical traits in with me.

Interviewer: Do you love your baby?

Valtonian: My iPod says that word does not translate to Valtonian. No such concept exists. Nor does compassion.

Interviewer: What if the Leader told you that the planet was overpopulated and odered you to kill your baby.

Valtonian: It would be relatively easy to do so with a variety of means.

Interviewer: So you would find a painless way to kill him?

Valtonian: I would kill him if the Leader ordered it. I would use the most efficient method. What does the amount of pain experienced by the baby have to do with this discussion?

Anything’s possible, I guess. It just strikes me as more likely that civilisation and societal development go hand in hand in group interest emotions like compassion.

But we’re all talking out if our asses. If course nobody knows. We can only guess at what we think is likely, with the knowledge that we have a single frame of reference (though protection of young, as in your example, is very common in animal species and in every human culture).

You guys do realize that in ET 2, after he gets home, they send back reinforcements and annihilate us?

And notably, Nazism didn’t last all that long.

Personally, I’m less worried about some society of sociopaths somehow managing to hang on and develop into an interstellar culture, than I am about a “Skynet scenario.” If some amoral, selfish and expansionist AI were to get out of control and kill off its creators, it wouldn’t need to develop social skills - there’d be no society. Just it, and it alone. A single intelligence could be utterly amoral and ruthless, and last indefinitely since there’d be no competitors and no need for cooperation.

Listen, and understand! That AI is out there! It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Evolution is competiton for resources, at high stakes (life/death). It’s entirely reasonable to assume that the apex lifeforms on any given planet would be those best able to subdue and/or consume the competition. I roll my eyes every time I encounter the SF meme “We have no concept of violence on our planet” - if you’re all peace and love and flowers, it just means you’re food for something else.

An evolved intelligent lifeform must, at the very least, have a history/ancestry that involves being a winner - but then again, once social contructs start to develop, it’s hard to argue that violence is sustainable in the long run - on Earth, we’re kinda becoming averse to war - a species/global culture that persists in being beligerent is (although perhaps technologically somewhat stimulated by the process) likely to expend all it’s resources on self-destruction.

There’s no material resource that makes it worth crossing interstellar space. No element or compound that’s intrinsically so valuable that it’s worth travelling to another star to get it - anyone capable of the very-near-impossible feat of such travel has already become independent of planets.

So why would they come here? The desire to expand has often been cited - because we supposedly have a desire to expand into space, but do we? (I mean, outside of speculative fiction, where expansion is easy). We haven’t even really expanded into the deserts of our own planet - which are easier to live in than space, by probably several orders of magnitude.

Why would we go there? Curiosity seems the most likely answer.

we’re already trying when we can’t. if we can, we will. also, staying on your original planet is the intergalactic equivalent of staying in your mother’s basement.

I’d say it’s more analogous to staying in a maximum-security prison. Not exactly a choice.