Early Marriages

The BBQ Pit
181

[QUOTE=you with the face]
“Length and quality of time” based on your own subjective feelings of what’s appropriate.
[/quote]

And there are “objective” feelings of what’s appropriate? Aside from egregious offenses like abuse, infidelity, etc., I’m not sure what objective criteria you’d accept. Does “they hardly know each other” count? Or “they seem to be totally immature and have no idea what they want, and are caught up in the idea of being in love”? Probably not. But I’m guessing that’s what the OP is seeing.

Aren’t you a little late with this bandwagoning post? It’s all been said already. No one liked NightRabbit’s rant. I think she gets it. I doubt “real tales of woe” would sway anyone at this point, since it seems that nothing she says here will be given any credit.

Well, duh. Until the couples in question actually get divorced, of course it’s all potentialities. And you know, sometimes people in abusive relationships, with incompatible valued and habits, sexual problems, infidelity, etc., stay together. So, there’s really no way to know whose relationship will work and whose won’t. Saying two people hardly know each other, or are young and immature, obviously isn’t a basis for having doubts. I suspect the upshot of this thread is “you can’t have an opinion about other people’s relationship decisions.” Which is pretty hilarious, considering the many threads on this subject that don’t raise this much Cain.

182

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Aren’t you a little late with this bandwagoning post? It’s all been said already.
[/quote]

So why are you still talking?

It’s not given any credit because it really isn’t any deserving of it, IMO. No one is advocating marriage between practical strangers, but I believe that the OP has a weak basis for judging her friends as she has done so.

And this is just foolishness. Divorce doesn’t just come out of nowhere; problems in a marriage lead to divorce. Can the OP point to some real problems, is what I’m wondering? Because she’d have a much more basis to argue that her friends have made foolish decisions if she could point to some. If these people she’s complaining about are blissfully happy, minding their business, working out their shit together, doing what they want to do, then it looks stupid to say “OMG, you’re making a mistake!!!”

Sure you can have opinions about other people’s relationship decisions. That doesn’t mean everyone will agree that they are merited.

I noticed you haven’t addressed the point I raised about interracial marriage. Just wondering why that is.

183

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
Sure, and nothing happened after five months to give you a new perspective on the woman you married. You knew ALL PERSONALITY SIDES of your wife after five months. Either she is the most uncomplicated person on the planet, or you don’t understand subtlety.

[/QUOTE]

I was 43 when I proposed; my wife was 36. I think we were both old enough, and had enough life experience, to make our own decision. Not that it really matters, but everyone who knows us thinks we made the right decision. You, who don’t know us at all, are telling me what I should have done. Right.

Ed

184

[QUOTE=you with the face]
So why are you still talking?
[/quote]

If you notice, I’m saying something different from everyone else in this thread. You, OTOH, are just repeating what 98% of the rest of the posters have said.

How do you know? I’d think she knew her friends better than you do. Your “me too” here is what’s weak.

You’re arguing apples and I’m saying oranges. Before a couple divorces, the divorce is only a potentiality. NightRabbit doesn’t know for a fact that her friends’ relationships are going to end in divorce. She just has a strong suspicion that they might. She can’t PROVE that they will, how could she? She was just venting about how she thinks they’re making bad decisions. Maybe she’s wrong and they’re right-- it’s certainly possible. Couples I thought would be together forever break up; couples who seem doomed are still together. None of us have a crystal ball. And none of us know what really goes on in other people’s relationships.

As for her pointing to “real problems,” do you really want her to go into more detail, or are you just busting her balls? Seems to me like she’s using “age” as a code for “immature, inexperienced, foolish.”

I don’t know anything about those statistics, nor have you provided any (and if you do, be sure they come from a peer reviewed journal and that you can provide a full text article and not just an abstract, or I won’t even read them :wink: ). If you want to get me into some argument about facts not in evidence so you can turn this into an fight about race, sorry, I’m not biting.

185

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I don’t know anything about those statistics, nor have you provided any (and if you do, be sure they come from a peer reviewed journal and that you can provide a full text article and not just an abstract, or I won’t even read them :wink: ). If you want to get me into some argument about facts not in evidence so you can turn this into an fight about race, sorry, I’m not biting.
[/QUOTE]

Why do you have to have stats before you address a hypothetical question? It’s pathetically disingenuous to even portray my argument in that manner, when you’re intelligent enough to know what my point is. I’m only trying to show you why using statistics in the way that you’re using them is not a smart look. The same arguments you’re using about early marriage could be used for other types of marriages that see a disproportionate number of divorces. Are you prepared to have judgement hurled your way because you and your SO fall in some “at-risk” category? Honestly, I’m wondering. I don’t expect you to answer.

186

[QUOTE=you with the face]
No one is advocating marriage between practical strangers

[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ.

pkbites: I met my wife in December of 1979.
Proposed on New Years Eve
Married in January of 1980 at the age of 19.

If that’s not “practical strangers”, then I’m not sure what is.

[QUOTE=you with the face]

And this is just foolishness. Divorce doesn’t just come out of nowhere; problems in a marriage lead to divorce. Can the OP point to some real problems, is what I’m wondering? Because she’d have a much more basis to argue that her friends have made foolish decisions if she could point to some.
[/QUOTE]

The foolish decision is getting married to someone you’ve barely spent a few months getting to know! If you don’t think this is a foolish decision, then I’d like to hear you stick on topic and support it.

[QUOTE=you with the face]

I noticed you haven’t addressed the point I raised about interracial marriage. Just wondering why that is.
[/QUOTE]

Because it’s a dumb point. No one is saying not to get married based on statistics. You shouldn’t wait until 30-something to marry b/c the statistics say that that marriage age has the lowest divorce rate. That being said, maybe there’s a REASON that divorce rates can be higher based on a younger marriage age. It’s something to think about and not just dismiss out of hand.

187

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
I beg to differ.

pkbites: I met my wife in December of 1979.
Proposed on New Years Eve
Married in January of 1980 at the age of 19.

If that’s not “practical strangers”, then I’m not sure what is.
[/quote]

I don’t think you know what “advocating” means, but I’m not surprised. It’s an example of one poster saying what he did, but he’s not urging everyone else to do that. Jeesh.

You need to talk to Rubystreak and ask her why she keeps talking statistics then. That’s really the only reason why I’m in this thread.

188

[QUOTE=you with the face]
Why do you have to have stats before you address a hypothetical question?
[/quote]

Race = static characteristic
Age = variable characteristic that changes over time

Comparing race to age is not going a valid analogy. You are trying to draw me into a debate that is not relevant to this discussion. I don’t even really want to be in this discussion anymore, and I definitely don’t want to engage YOU in a discussion relating to race. Don’t like it? Too fucking bad. You’re not going to goad me into this debate. I’m off-line after tomorrow for several days surrounding Xmas, so what’s the point anyway?

You’re late to this thread and you’re trying to divert the topic at hand. I am obviously, OBVIOUSLY not an expert in these matters, and I also clearly don’t have any statistics that any of you accept or respect. You’re not going agree with me or hear what I or NightRabbit have to say on this topic. You’re just stirring shit up in a thread that’s on its last legs and trying to change the subject onto one that suits your usual soapbox. I really don’t know why, but whatever blows your skirt up.

Don’t you think Maeglin already did that? I can’t afford to subscribe to all the journals I found that only post abstracts for free on the internet. My CDC site was not considered. It seems clear to me now, also, having done more research on the subject, that marriage at a young age is actually a symptom of other issues that lead to early marriage. I’ve already conceded those points, and then you come barreling in here to put my dick in the dirt further. Really, what is it that you want me to concede? Just tell me.

You can’t change what race you or the person you love happens to be You could wait longer to get married, though, if you chose to. Don’t you see the difference there? Or are you being deliberately obtuse about this point because you want to create some reason to fight me here?

189

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I’ve already conceded those points, and then you come barreling in here to put my dick in the dirt further. Really, what is it that you want me to concede? Just tell me.
[/QUOTE]

I kind of like that expression. Thanks!

190

[QUOTE=Maeglin]
I kind of like that expression. Thanks!
[/QUOTE]

Hey, you definitely made me rethink my points. You’re a smart cookie. I appreciate whatever education I can get, wherever I can get it.

191

[QUOTE=you with the face]
I don’t think you know what “advocating” means, but I’m not surprised. It’s an example of one poster saying what he did, but he’s not urging everyone else to do that. Jeesh.
[/QUOTE]

Of course I wouldn’t urge anyone else to do what I did. I would never urge anyone to get married regardless of how long or short they’ve known each other. It’s not my business anymore than it’s NightRabbits business of how short anyone knew each other before they wed.

Most of us live our entire lives quite contently and successfully, doing many things that are in complete contrast to NR’s irrelevant opinions.

192

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Race = static characteristic
Age = variable characteristic that changes over time

Comparing race to age is not going a valid analogy.
[/QUOTE]

I mentioned religion too (did you know see that?), but I guess that doesn’t matter since you conceded the point anyway and I haven’t the desire to engage you further.

Tata.

193

[QUOTE=you with the face]
I mentioned religion too (did you know see that?),
[/quote]

Did I not give a fuck? is a better question. You don’t want to have a conversation with me. Hypotheticals are bullshit for debate, as are lame analogies. I think you can answer your own question but you think you’re going to humiliate me or something. The very soul of charity at Christmas, you are.

I have never had the desire to engage you, so let’s not pretend here, OK? I conceded that the question is more complex than “marrying young is a predictor of future divorce.” It’s more complicated than that, and I was happy to be able to see the complexities. Whatever else it is you wanted from me here, I don’t know, but it was certainly not a spirited debate on the points. But thanks for dropping this absolutely bullshit tack you were taking.

Oh, fuck you, really.

194

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Hey, you definitely made me rethink my points. You’re a smart cookie. I appreciate whatever education I can get, wherever I can get it.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I am definitely a ginger snap. No, maybe molasses. If you are interested in social sciencey stuff, I’d be happy to recommend books written by much smarter cookies than yours truly.

195

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
This goes for you too, jsgoddess. bullshit that you’re an “uncomplicated” person and so is your SO. Bullshit! Nice rationalizing.
[/QUOTE]

So, which is it? Either you know me, which means it’s possible to know someone after a few interactions which contradicts everything you’ve said, or you don’t know me, in which case you have no idea what you’re talking about when you attempt to say who I am or what I’m thinking.

Which is it?

You know, if someone in physical life is getting on your case and telling you to get married, give 'em a figurative sock on the nose. I understand that feeling entirely, not so much from marriage (though the people who warned me not to marry someone sick can BITE ME, bitches. Ten years!), but from the “so when are you having baaaaaaaaaaaabies?” people.

In this thread, though, you don’t seem to be allowing for simple, basic, differences of personality, goals, dreams, desires, outlooks, situations, or anything else.

Still, I’m okay with you not trusting me because I got married after knowing someone for 10 (I originally said 11. I can’t count) months. I don’t have a bridge I wanna sell, so not being trusted is pretty tolerable.

The funny thing is, you would still trust me if I had lied. If I get a bridge, I’ll say, “That thing before with the getting married too soon? I lied. Now trust meee!”

196

Is anyone saying that 11 months is too short? I think that’s a pretty decent amount of time to know someone. I thought the OP was talking about the one month courtship; I’m not sure why you think she’s talking to you.

[QUOTE=Maeglin]
Thanks. I am definitely a ginger snap. No, maybe molasses. If you are interested in social sciencey stuff, I’d be happy to recommend books written by much smarter cookies than yours truly.
[/QUOTE]

PM me. I’m interested in social sciences, but I have never been good at statistics. Lemme know if you’ve got anything interesting you’ve read recently.

197

I wonder what percentage of “quick” marriages are the result of unplanned pregnancies? Because if it’s a significant percentage, then it would difficult to assess what the primary cause of a subsequent divorce was. I can think of several factors that would strain a marriage that are only indirectly tied to the age of the couple: 1) the stress of caring for baby 24/7; 2) feeling “tied down” or “trapped”; 3) the financial strain of having to support themselves and a new family.

198

So there’s this new trend, where people post bizarre OPs in the Pit, and never think to a) explain what it is about their personal situation that makes the situation Pit-able, and b) see their own unique worldview as somehow holding water beyond the corners of their own little world.

It’s a stupid OP. You want to Pit people you know of who’ve married early and ruined their dreams? Go ahead. But to cast out the blanket statement as the OP has just strikes me as incredibly arrogant, immature, and culturally biased. Maybe in the cultural context you describe marriage early is problematic. But that’s not the only cultural context that exists, is it?

While I am a social scientist and give a great deal of credence to statistics and predictive models, I do think that something as atomistic as marriage is virtually impossible to discuss with any certainty, and one risks sounding like a braying jackass without constantly reminding the audience, “This is my opinion, and what I think.”

As someone mentioned upthread, simple correlational statistics by no means equal causation. I’d argue that a large-scale qualitative inquiry might shed light on this issue, but even that’s doubtful and colored by the investigator’s own bias to an extent. The fact that several people have chimed in and noted that their experiences marrying early worked, and that several have said the opposite might suggest to the OP that the initial post in this thread has served to insult people and view the OP in a negative light - but the ideas within could have been presented in a much less polarizing way.

I’m still waiting for the OP to explain why an issue like marriage, that tends to affect the two people involved a hell of a lot more than anyone else, is something that concerns her so much. As another poster stated, I care only about the marriages of close friends and family. Anyone else, please get married/don’t get married to your heart’s content… it really isn’t any of my business. Hell, that’s true of every marriage except my own, including my close friends and family.

199

[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]
It’s a stupid OP. You want to Pit people you know of who’ve married early and ruined their dreams? Go ahead. But to cast out the blanket statement as the OP has just strikes me as incredibly arrogant, immature, and culturally biased. Maybe in the cultural context you describe marriage early is problematic. But that’s not the only cultural context that exists, is it?
[/QUOTE]

Anytime anyone posts some broad judgment of a large group of people, the people who feel like they’re part of the category that’s being judged are going to feel that the OP and those who agree with it are being arrogant and biased. All the threads about misbehaving children come to mind. I don’t think you can construct an OP in the Pit about people’s personal choices without a good chunk of people thinking it’s judgmental bullshit.

I do wish the OP had made it a bit more personal. I could throw out 3-4 stories that are totally fucked up about people I know who got married young and impulsively and which ended very badly. I don’t think that would change the response that this thread has gotten, because those are just anecdotes, right? Can’t make generalizations about those. No one wants to hear that other people think that they made a questionable decision. And maybe they didn’t, and maybe the OP doesn’t apply to you.

I’ve already conceded that some of my assumptions about early marriage are incorrect. I’m still not sure about the hasty marriage question… I’m not sure there are any hard statistics on the subject. Where the hell do you find these numbers, that would hold up to the scrutiny of someone like Maeglin or Hippy Hollow? How does one meaningfully assess the causes of divorce? I’m serious about these questions. Fight my apparently not inconsiderable ignorance on this topic. I’ve gotten truly curious now.

200

[QUOTE=pkbites]
Of course I wouldn’t urge anyone else to do what I did. I would never urge anyone to get married regardless of how long or short they’ve known each other. It’s not my business anymore than it’s NightRabbits business of how short anyone knew each other before they wed.

Most of us live our entire lives quite contently and successfully, doing many things that are in complete contrast to NR’s irrelevant opinions.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, then what’s the point of posting? you obviously disagree with my OP, otherwise you wouldn’t be posting your anecdote to the contrary. Or did you just want to share?