Earth in space and time

[standingwave]

@spifflog

No no. Your wrong. One of the reasons we have the space station is there is to push the earth around for DST. It’s harder to pull it back, that’s why they do that in the fall. It’s later in the year so thay have more time to fix that kinka stuf.

Ignerance faught by but!!

The fact that we continue to insist on lengthening the days by one hour during the warmest days of the year just goes to show that we aren’t really serious about combating global warming.

[Peremensoe]

@panache45

Obviously the equinoxes and solstices are absolute and independent of our artificial timekeeping. But not everyone corresponds these dates with the first day of the seasons. There’s no reason why the first day of summer has to fall on the summer solstice, for example, and in many countries it doesn’t.

It’s a matter of how one defines “season.” Looking at it astronomically, it seems more logical, to me, to call the solstices and equinoxes the midpoints of their respective seasons.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Keeve

You don’t think he is just trolling, pretending to think that the earth really did get pushed back?

From his phrasing (“theoretically”, “‘pushed back’”) I interpret his question as a query about the virtual adjustment of the orbital position to achieve the time shift rather than an physical dislocation of the planet in its orbit. A real troll or conspiracy nutter would usually posit some additional and completely unfounded conjecture combined with vague implication that the New World Order is using this to advantage their position in controlling the unwashed masses. Anyway, as stated it is an easy enough question to answer without descending into Coast-to-Coast AM territory.

Stranger

[panache45]

@Peremensoe

It’s a matter of how one defines “season.” Looking at it astronomically, it seems more logical, to me, to call the solstices and equinoxes the midpoints of their respective seasons.

I agree, but I also don’t see any reason why all 4 seasons must be the same length. Summer and Winter seem to be longer than Autumn and Spring.

[standingwave]

@panache45

I agree, but I also don’t see any reason why all 4 seasons must be the same length. Summer and Winter seem to be longer than Autumn and Spring.

They aren’t the same length.
Winter ~ 89 days
Spring ~ 93 days
Summer ~ 94 days
Fall ~ 90 days
(Northern hemisphere.)

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@panache45

I agree, but I also don’t see any reason why all 4 seasons must be the same length. Summer and Winter seem to be longer than Autumn and Spring.

The apparent or useful (in terms of growing season) length of the season depends upon yor latitide. At high latitudes, winter is long and summer is short; at the equator is is always either summer or near-summer. At the temperate latitudes all four seasons are more equally distributed through the year, and therefore the reason that most intensive agriculture occurs at these latitudes.

Stranger

[mbloom1]

Hey everybody!!! Ease up, this was my first post, guys (non-gender related meaning)!

I got a real kick out of all of the responses. Of course they all show how terribly ignorant I am about celestial mechanics…never having studied it.

Anyway, to get back to the original question: I’m posting from 40.4°N. And, QuickSilver and Noone Special understood my question as I intended (see NooneSpecial 3-20-2013 04:39 PM). But don’t understand how altitude enters into this.

I checked online for sunrise times, as suggested. I saw listings of sunrise times at 40.4°N (and 75.8°W) but expected to see a one hour difference going from March 9 to March 10. I did not. This little exercise just served to further confuse me.

Here is my thinking-waking time throughout the year is 6:40am. From January (just picked arbitrarily) till day before DST, the light outside is slowly getting brighter earlier. Then BAM, DST and IF I forgot to turn the clocks forward, I’m actually getting up at 7:40am even though my alarm clock still says 6:40am. But, if I DID set the clock forward, then at 6:40am when the alarm goes off, it IS 6:40am. The difference being–if I forgot to reset the clock, its nice and bright outside,but, if I remembered to reset the clock, its pitchblack outside. Its as if the earth had been physically backed up in its orbit by one hours worth of time.

NOW, if I look at the sunrise table created from <40-below.com - This website is for sale! - 40 below Resources and Information.; with these particulars: Starting Date: 1/1/13; Ending Date: 3/24/13; Latitude 40.4°N; Longitude: 75.8°W; TimeZone: 5; and Daylight Savings: Yes:, I see that sunrise on March 10 (first day DST is in effect) is 7:22:29. If I look on that chart one hour earlier (read darker), I come up with January 18 with sunrise at 8:22:43!

So, if this logic is right, I have answered my original question (with guidance from you guys) and the answer is: “The earth has figuratively backed up in its orbit by 51 days.”

OK, what’s wrong with that answer?

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@mbloom1

So, if this logic is right, I have answered my original question (with guidance from you guys) and the answer is: “The earth has figuratively backed up in its orbit by 51 days.”

OK, what’s wrong with that answer?

Your logic is not correct. When the transition to Daylight Savings Time occurs, what literally happens is that the displacement from the reference time for the synodic day (Universal Coordinated Time) is shifted by one hour. The length of the solar daytime, and the altitude of the Sun as it crosses the meridian–which change with respect to the position of the Earth in its orbit around the Sun–obviously do not change due to the institution of DST; when sunrise is shifted up an hour, sunset is shifted by exactly the same interval. By your logic, if the planet is shifted to a prior point as measured against the epoch, the length of the day and ephemerides of the Sun would change distinctively.

Stranger

[mbloom1]

OK. Oh, and thanks.