I think “normal” women with healthy diets and just moderate exercise are much smaller than the majority appears to be. We are a nation of sedentary junk food junkies and what appears to be normal to most people is actually an unhealthy female physique.
I hate you. And yet …
So, Lissa, how you doin’? 
I agree that there certainly is a huge double standard in practice when people address fat vs thin. I have many friends who eat like horses, don’t exercise a lick, and still have hip bones that could slice glass- they are constantly told to eat, go to the doctor, and I distinctly remember them being called into the office in highschool several times to be confronted on their “eating disorder”.
On the same side of that token, I am overweight myself (I’m on the road of fixing this, go me :)) and one time I took my size 0 friend into Lane Bryant with me. My friend really loves their necklaces and wanted to look around while I bought a shirt, you see. Well almost as soon as we walked in the door, the comments started. “What the HELL is that ANOREXIC THING doing in HERE?” “Go eat a sammich, MaryKate!” on and on. These were GROWN WOMEN screaming at a 16 year old child. Oh and that’s not even including the glares, whispers, and pointing.
Now, if the same fat women that were making comments were to walk into- I dunno- the Limited and were to hear equally offensive comments made about their wide load, they would have thrown a tantrum. Yet, it was perfectly fine to pick on the “skinny chick” who just wasn’t in her environment.
I’m also bothered by the whole ‘Fat is the new Fit’ mentality we’re starting to see pop up. By all means, accept yourself how you and be happy that you’re you, but realize that a certain body weight on certain frames simply is not healthy. I love myself and think I’m adorable (I am, ya know 
), but I also would rather not die by the time I’m 40- so I hit the gym. I’m actually an ex- national champion triathlete myself, QuickSilver.
And QuickSilver, you’ve already been railed for it quite a bit, but you do realize that size 12 isn’t necessarily fat? On me (5’3) a size 12 might still be “thick” if you’re being kind or down right chunky if you’re being honest, but on someone 5’7-5’10 a size 12 can be downright thin.
Previously (in the other thread), we were talking about Jessica Simpson. Jessica is 5’4 and has gone on the record that she is a size 00. While filming the Dukes of Hazard, she said she went on a diet of little-no carbs, no sugar, and little-no fat-- while working out over 6 hours a day. If she does it in a healthy manner and is happy- then more power to her. The problem is that most people don’t know that, that’s HOW she did it (not eating much and an inordinant amount of exercise).
I coach high school debate and one of our girls is a perfect example of why Jessica and her little-known fitness schedule can be dangerous. This girl was 5’1, 110 lbs, and a size 4. Thin by all accounts, but healthy with her slight hips, slight boobs, and flat but not rock-like tummy. I soon noticed that she was “dieting” (IE eating iceburg lettuce and Diet Pepsi while drinking a million Red Bulls and taking B12) so I asked her about it. She said that she heard that Jessica was down to a size 00 and if Jess can do it, why can’t she?
The girl lost 15 lbs and looked emaciated. And no, this isn’t just another case of the fat chick calling the thin one names- she really did look sick. Her chest was all boney, her hips stuck out so bad that they got scratched on her pants, her legs didn’t come remotely close to touching, and her face had that weird, gaunt look to it. And yet, all her friends were telling her how amazing she looked because, OMIGAWD!, she looked JUST like Jessica Simpson.
Granted, this is mostly stupid, 17 year old girls who simply don’t know how to lose weight properly (and a lame anecdote at that), but the kids I work with come to mind when I read about whether or not it is ok to critique stars and their weight.
Oh and the girls’ new idol? Nicole Richie because, OMIGAWD, she looks SO good! :rolleyes:
Am I the only one here that thinks the concept of a size 0 is pure madness? For the longest time, I thought it was just a joke.
(snippage involved)
I so agree with this. Every time there is a news article on anorexia, it’s always sympathetic and generally supportive of the people who suffer from what is a horrible disease.
On the other hand, whenever there’s a news article about obesity, it seems the sneers & jibes are generally just below the surface.
VCNJ~
Size 0 is silly, but size 00is just insane.
In some of the stores that I shop in when in Hollywood (the lil’ trendy places where the stars shop) have actually started carrying 000.
I hadn’t heard of double or triple zero sizing until I read this just now. Whoever came up with that must have dropped out of math before they learned about negative numbers.
Well, not exactly. I am and always have been on the thinner side of average so I’ve never had a weight issue per se, I’ve just never walked around looking, in my opinion, emmaciated. I’m not disputing the points you’re making; I think I’m just not very coherent today.
While it may be tiresome to receive unsolicited comments about something that is totally out of one’s control, the fact is that “thin” is arguably one of the most desirable physical traits (in this country, anyway). Of course, it depends on what’s being said. Anything overtly insulting obviously deserves a smack down, but “eat a sammich” seems pretty tame to me.
You’re projecting. I only have contempt for people who want to define normalcy by an unrealistic standard. I’m saying normal can be a lot of things, but the standard held up for women and girls is NOT normal for most people, and no, not because we’re all a bunch of fatties, either. These very petite, small-boned, thin women often look beautiful but they are not the only way to be, and sometimes the way they get so thin is not healthy or requires surgery. That’s what I don’t like. The other natural body types are not equally represented in media and cultural images of what’s acceptable, even though they are healthy and in fact more common. Then, women torment themselves trying to fit in with what’s expected and it can be very dangerous.
I consider myself pretty thin. I’m in good shape, I have muscles and some fat, and I don’t feel envy for people who are smaller than I am, which is pretty difficult considering I’m 5’0", wear petite sizes, and am at the best weight I’ve had in 5 years. Why would I dis on thin people? No, I have a problem with the expectation that women should look a certain way when, in fact, there are a lot of ways to look and still be beautiful.
I agree too that there’s more of a stigma on fat people. I mean, when did you ever hear someone complain that skinny people should buy half an airplane seat? (Okay, that was probably a bad example, because it’s ridiculous, but you see my point.)
Just as with being underweight, there are some overweight people who just can’t help it. Try as they might, they can’t take off five pounds for the life of them. As someone who struggles with thyroid disorder, I struggle to keep my weight down. (Side note: For those of you who are underweight and struggle to gain, have you had your thyroid checked? You could be hyperthyroid, and daily medication could help.) Basically, people who need to lose a few pounds aren’t necessarily lazy assholes who sit around the house eating McDonald’s and Doritos all day.
I think what DiosaBellissima pointed out is the big issue here. The problem is that young girls see someone like Jessica Simpson or Nicole Richie who weren’t fat to start with but lost weight, and see being ultra-thin as the only type of body that is accepted as beautiful because that’s what Hollywood presents to them. I heard a report on the news just this morning on how younger and younger children are developing eating disorders. Sure, Jessica Simpson probably doesn’t have an eating disorder, but little girls who idolize her are in danger of developing one.
Thanks, that was nice of you to say. Know what would be even nicer? If you admitted explicitly that you were wrong and apologized for characterizing all size-12 women as abnormal, overweight and out-of-shape. It hurts to work hard to be fit, only to be dismissed a lazy slob who doesn’t expercise because your dress-size isn’t below some arbitrary number.
Honest question: would you prefer that reports on obesity discuss the profound and deadly mental illness that leads people to overeat?
No, I’m telling you how your posts sometimes come across. I think you use the word “normal” too much as a positive descriptor.
Daniel
Well, to be perfectly fair he didn’t say all women that wear size, he said Your “Normal” size 12 women. Since normal is in quotes it is a bit ambiguous, and maybe even deliberately so, but he definately did not say ALL.
Nah, I think you are in denial. I definately see it as well. Or perhaps we are ALL projecting, and you really don’t have an an issue.
suuure…
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Honest question: would you prefer that reports on obesity discuss the profound and deadly mental illness that leads people to overeat?/QUOTE]
That would be preferable to the sneering innuendos. Absolutely some people who overeat do have mental problems that cause it. That should be given credence - and the same sympathy and support given to those who have the profound and deadly mental illness that leads people to starve themselves.
VCNJ~
Maybe it’s just a difference in personality, but I don’t like people to comment on my body. I don’t like being the subject of attention (which is why I wear baggy clothes.)
This really rings true to me. I’m one of the people who has always been underweight, and I have gotten a lot of real hostility from other women. I was also sent to the guidance counselor several times during school to be badgered about my (non-existent) anorexia.
It’s not nearly as bad as what overweight women go through, but it’s not fun and compliments either.
I really don’t think you’re in a position to tell me what I am. I don’t stigmatize any body type. My definition of “normal” is pretty expansive, and it encompasses thin as well as larger people. It’s the cultural standard of normal that I have a problem with, which tends to be restricted to one body type that is possessed by a very small percentage of the adult female population.
I have seen a lot of girls hurt by the infliction of a skewed “normal” on women’s self-perception. Frankly, I’d rather have women who are a little more filled out than Jessica Simpson acting as a role model because the drive to look like her can make people ill. What’s possible for her, with her workout schedule and staff of personal trainers and dieticians, is not possible for everyone.
If this means I have issues, then fine. I have issues. Don’t for a second think that you don’t, if you consider Ms. Simpson some sort of paragon or example for women.
I’m not talking about thin people in general. I’m talking about girls who look sickly, too thin-with hollow, sunken eyes and pale, unnatural skin tones. And even then, I remember reading a discussion about Fiona Apple. There were photos posted from her latest video, or whatever, and she looked fantastic. Then some moron had to point out-“Oh my god, what a porker-she should lose that weight.”
Except…Fiona has struggled with an eating disorder for years and now she’s finally gaining the much needed weight. Only to be told she’s “fat.”
Look at the comments from Hollywood. Kate Winslet was mocked as being the reason the Titanic sunk. If Kate Winslet’s fat, then we should ALL be fat like her!
So it doesn’t matter how you are, there’s always some idiots out there telling you that you’re too fat/thin and you’re ugly and worthless. It’s bullshit.
(And again, I think the worst part about Simpson is those lips. Ugh.)
I did no such thing and I don’t think I need to appologize for something I didn’t say.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. It’s been my experience that what passes for “normal” these days is what would be termed as average by a bell curve of weight distribution amongst the general US population. I’m hardly the first or last to note that the average weight is going up and that statistics suggest that as many as 50% (correct me if I’m wrong) of people are significantly overweight.
So if you, Podkayne, can comfortably run 3 miles as a size 12, I submit to you that you are not the average size 12. In fact, I’d say you are unfortunately the exception. Which is much to your credit.