Can I have another piece of Chocolate Cake?
The thing I object to most is the composition.
The gap between the ‘A’ and the ‘M’ overly accentuates the fact that Christina’s personal trainer has not been rigorous enough with Christina’s abs routine. Also, that dark, pointy shadow hanging off Britney’s butt makes the ‘P’ appear to be an ‘R’. Either that, or the previously san-serif font suddenly changed to a serif font, but only for the ‘L’. And speaking of personal trainers… what the hell happened to Britney’s right leg? That’s some serious atrophy below her butt cheek!
Oh, yeah… unless this image depicts a scene on a planet with more than one sun (as in three or four), the highlight on the dome, and the shadows cast by those phallic plinth things just below the dome, and the sun that’s shining from behind the two slaves, well… it’s just all wrong, man!
I was going to respond to this the way you did to my comment. But then I realised from reading your other posts in this thread, its your manner to treat people with complete disrespect… so your clearly not worth my time.
Delly’s comment prompts me to ask a question of Evil Captor. A serious question. How many art classes have you taken? What is your formal art education? Have you attended classes at local community center type places or local colleges or what?
There are several different kinds of art classes. Some are rather rigorous. The teacher and fellow students are not necessarily hard to each other, but things are very serious and you will be told where you fall short. You will be told tactfully, but you will be told.
Then there are the “feel good” classes where a prima-donna/can’t-take-any-criticism student will pretty much be left to their own devices and the teacher and fellow students won’t waste their time trying to convince the prima donna student that they could be better. Who needs the melodrama?
Now, from what you’ve shown here on this thread, I don’t know how well you’d do in the former type of class. Of course I don’t know what your real-life persona is compared to your online persona. But I’d be curious to know how a rigorous, demanding art teacher would handle the ego (that you’ve shown here) or the endless spin-spin-spin when they give you legitimate crticisms.
My Dear Baboon, The Finns are behind the computer.
Yosemite-
didn’t you read? He has 20 years of experience! I’ve asked a few times how old he is to get a basic grasp of the worth of the 20 years, but no answer.
anya marie,
As long as you leave Neil alone, all is cool. 
Lessee… 1984…
Which version of Photoshop would he have started with?
Probably -4 (negative 4). I think the first version of Photoshop came out in 1990 or thereabouts. Now we’re up to version 8 (Photoshop CS).
The first versions of Photoshop were for Mac-only, so he’d have to have been a Mac person. Maybe he used MacPaint or something like that before Photoshop came out.
Bad News Baboon: I get this impression that he doesn’t like the high falutin’ artsy educated stuff. Thinks we’re snobs or something. (“bluenoses.”) I could be wrong, though.
I am still interested in knowing what your formal (or informal) art education is, Evil! Where art thou? You’ve been so silent lately!
You know, Yosemite, when I posted I started to think about it:
I don’t think I can ever recall an artist listing ‘years of experience’, usually because it doesn’t matter or really mean anything. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.
If there is a painting, as an example, that is breathtakingly beautiful, it doesn’t matter if the person had no experience whatsoever or 50.
Alas, it works the other way, too.
Maybe Evil Captor is busy posting in great debates?
I wouldn’t necessarily overemphasize the importance of formal training in art. I know plenty of artists–some moderately successful, others very successful–who have never taken an art class in their lives. This is particularly evident in the fields of photography and graphic design.
However, what all these successful artists do have in common is at least a mentor, somebody to guide them in a master/apprentice sort of relationship, and the ability to be able to take harsh criticism and be able to critically self-appraise their work without an inflated sense of grandeur. I don’t think it matters how you learn your chops, but you do have to learn your chops. And a lot of growing as an artist is making a lot of mistakes. And learning from them. And when people who know what the heck they’re talking about and whose opinions you respect criticize your work, you listen to it and digest it.
And striving for perfection in art is not a “platitude.” If I notice any detail that is off in a photograph of mine, I can’t look at it again, or I gnaw at myself saying “goddamit, why didn’t I notice that when I was framing.” And you learn, and you don’t make that mistake again.
There is no excuse for technical imperfection in work. Technique is the easy part, IMHO. Anyone can learn decent technique. And there are many technical shortcomings in this work, and people have been critical, but have kindly pointed out what the problems were.
Really, when people are looking at my photographs, I don’t care to hear “yeah, those are good.” I want to hear, what could have I done better? What is keeping this photo from being absolutely great? Otherwise, what am I learning? Nothing.
Oh, I agree, formal education isn’t proof of anything by itself—I often comment how when someone brags about their art degree, it means exactly nothing to me—I want to see what kind of work they do first.
However, I asked Evil Captor about his formal education because I was curious how he handled education or a class setting—any class setting. What did he do if the teacher corrected him? How would he feel if he didn’t get the positive, glowing responses he was expecting? How would others react to him when he crowed and bragged and boasted about his work?
Sometimes a tough class setting can really take the stuffin’ out of you, which is a good thing. I know it’s been a good thing for me, because it helps me to strive to be better. But I’ve seen people react badly (in public) to rejection or criticism, even though it is given fairly and for the right reasons. I remember one girl making a loud scene because the teacher gave her a pretty mild criticism about her work. This girl was almost in tears and kept on repeating, “But I’m in galleries!” She didn’t return to class after that, even though her work certainly could have used improvement.
Another time, a student destroyed a lot of her own artwork after she didn’t get into an art show. (This after she boasted that not only would she get in, she’d probably get an award too.) The rejection was such a shock to her, since she tended to ignore any feedback or criticism and got very high strung and upset when anyone tried to critique her work in a manner that was displeasing to her.
When artists live an insulated life, surrounded only by cheerleaders (in the form of family, loved ones, etc.) and no one gives them any criticism, they can react badly when the Real World finally comes to visit. And an art class (or any setting where fellow artists and others critique the work honestly) can heap out a big serving of the Real World.
So, I was curious—how much exposure has Evil had with this kind of setting? Did he take it well? Did he react as he did on this thread? Is he completely different IRL than he has been on this thread? I kind of wanted to know.
Oh, I did figure that’s what you meant, I just wanted to make clear to any other readers, as sometimes people do get hung up about formal qualifications, which proves jack shit to me.
My favorite critiquing story comes from my friend Vince, who is now a staff photog at the New York Times. When he was 15 or 16, Vince’s father Bertrand (a great photographer in his own right, and a former photo editor at Paris Match, IIRC) asked him to come up with his 20 best slides and he’d give him a critique.
Vince brings his best work to the light table and Bertrand examines each slide carefully with a loupe and begins to make two piles. In one pile, there are about five slides. The other, the other fifteen, all stacked up one atop the other. Bertrand takes out a pen and impales the fifteen slides, destroying fifteen irreplaceable originals of what Vince considered to be his best work.
“What is this crap? You call this your best photography?” he told his son. Then he pointed to the other five. “Now that is what I expect from you. That’s good work.” He then proceeded to explain what separated the good from the ugly.
Now, I don’t necessarily advocate this approach, but you do really need a very strong backbone to survive commercially in art. And you need to be told when your work is shit. If you want to become good, at least.
He probably started out cutting the heads out of the Sears Catalog and pasting them on top of Playboy centerfolds, then saying “Wow, I hardly got any glue outside of the lines that time.”
Agreed, agreed! I had this illustrated to me dramatically when I was in art school. Some of my classmates were full-of-themselves mediocre talents. I contrasted them with some guys who had displays at the local ComicCon. Beautiful artwork. BEAUTIFUL. I asked them, “Where did you go to school?” and they invariably replied, “Nowhere.”
So yeah. I know how it goes.
Yikes! I don’t advocate the destruction of original artwork, not in the least! But it is true—you’ve gotta have a strong backbone.
I got my “backbone” when I was still a child (hypercritical mom, trying to make sure I didn’t have an “ego,” trying to prepare me for the “real world”), and so far no other teacher has been as rough as she was. But there was this one time I went to this workshop up in the mountains with my sister. It was for a week. In the mountains. I was my sister’s ride so it wasn’t like I could bail out on her, either. I was stuck there.
My sister was having a blast. Loved, loved, loved her class (it was about making musical instruments). I took a class about painting from some big-shot old geezer from New York. He was a grumpy old coot who embarrassed me and denigrated my work in front of the whole class. He was mean. But what could I do? I couldn’t leave the workshop, because I couldn’t leave my sister in the lurch. (She was studying under her #1 Idol Of All Time.)
So, I figured that since I survived my mom, I could survive him. And I decided that I’d try to learn from this mean old guy and figure out what his problem was. So I was super-humble and compliant. “Oh teach me, oh wise one” was my tactic. (Not that I was in any way arrogant before. Just laid-back.) But I laid it on thick with this guy.
It did the trick. It turned out that it wasn’t that he thought I was that bad, it was that I wasn’t using the super-loud (I am talking screamingly loud) color schemes that he wanted me to use. Once I figured that out, I just went with the flow. Used the screaming-loud colors. (Which, to be honest, were kind of cool.)
By the end of the week he thought that he’d “transformed” me and was very pleased with my progress. And I had some fun working outside of my comfort zone, using super-loud bizarre colors (which can really look fabulous), and we were both happy.
Now, getting back to poor Evil Captor, (who at this point I really think has gotten the point driven home to him), IF he does not behave in real life (in a class setting) the way he has on this thread—well, it’s no big deal. If he can suck it up and take it like all the rest of us have taken it, then he’ll be fine and this all is a non-issue. He has given pepperlandgirl’s friends a huge laugh and it’s all good.
But IF he’s not been in too many class settings, then perhaps what he’s experienced on this thread will be a caution to him. (Though to be honest, unless he was really over the top, then perhaps people IRL would not be quite so . . . blunt with him. But they’d still get their feelings across.)
And another thing—most “mainstream” art classes aren’t going to accomodate bondage art. So he won’t be finding a whole lot of bondage fans praising his work (based on the subject matter). So, if he were in a class filled with students doing more mainstream work, he’d be competing with all of these artists, not just the small subset who specialize in bondage. That’s a completely different environment.
blowero: Yes, I can see him in grade school with his art projects! Probably gave the teacher a real start!