I recently won some expenssive concert tickets on ebay. The communication with the seller was good and friendly.
He posted the items to me in th UK by Royal Mail 1st Class Recorded Delivery. I know that this method of postage does not include issurance to the value of my item (about £200).
When I recieved the package, it looked tampered with and the tickets were not inside. Just my receipt.
I have since contacted the seller and explained that the package does not contain my tickets and he has told me that the post office wont look into the matter because I signed for the package. He is also only offering a partial refund (which covers the ammount of the tickets face value)
What are my rights here ? am i entitled to a full refund or just a refund on the face value of the tickets?
What else should I know about this matter ? I am suspicious that the package never contained the tickets and was doctored to look like it had been tampered with.
It’s the seller’s responsibility to get the goods to you and it’s their liability, despite frequent disclaimers trying to assert the contrary.
If you paid by Paypal, you can just initiate a chargeback and under certain circumstances, they will pretty much automatically find in your favour; be careful though; if you file a ‘not received’ claim, all the seller has to do is provide evidence of delivery, not evidence that the right thing was delivered; you might be better off with ‘significantly not as described’. I’d ask about it on the community Q&A board (linky).
Be warned though that the folks there are not as temperate in their outlook as the kind, gentle people here on the SDMB.
Having been on eBay for several years I can say this:
If you didn’t pay for (and/or did not request) an insurable shipping method, the postal service isn’t going to do anything about it.
On the other hand, if you file an Item Not Received with PayPal (assuming you paid by PayPal), the seller will have to provide proof of shipment. If he can’t, chances are PayPal will find in your favour.
However, if the seller has already withdrawn the money from his account, PayPal may not be able to “find” you any reimbursement.
If you paid by credit card you can always file a chargeback.
The thing is, if the seller held up his end of the bargain (packaged and posted the tickets) then there’s not much that can be done; neither of you are responsible if it gets lost or stolen while in transit if no insurable shipping method was chosen or no extra insurance was paid.
However, you said you had to sign for it; that usually indicates a trackable (and therefore insurable) shipping metehod was used. If you did pay for insurance, or the method of shipping included insurance, then I would be filing an insurance claim.
Oh, incidentally, eBay has a strict no-scalping rule stating that event tickets may not be sold for more than face value – so if he sold them to you for more than face value then he voilated eBay policy. Not that this changes things in any meaningful way, but generally speaking if you truly are entitled to a full refund then you are entitled to a full refund of the purchase price; the face value of the tickets is irrelevant.
Royal Mail will insure only up to £20 with recorded delivery. Our office had hassle with a lost passport that went AWOL somewhere between the Nationality and Immigration directorate in Croydon and here in Belfast, Royal Mail only stumped up the £20 they were liable for under the terms of recorded delivery.
I’m not sure what the OP can do, trying to prove the tickets were removed and the parcel then sent? Perhaps signing for it and accepting the parcel is enough to let Royal Mail off the hook, what can be done about the seller on EBay?
This is the single most irritating thing to me about eBay. I had an unpleasant exchange with a seller who insisted that he would not guarantee undamaged delivery, and in fact would not guarantee delivery at all, if I did not pay the optional extra fee for USPS insurance. He said those are his terms and conditions, and I could walk if I didn’t like them. He said that he has no responsibility for what USPS does with a package after it leaves his hands. As much as I don’t like that attitude, if those are his posted T&Cs I don’t know how you can claim otherwise. Can you elaborate on that point?
The other thing that the OP’er should do is report the theft to the police, or insist that the sender do so. I once received a birthday card from my mother with a gift card from Best Buy, except the envelope had been opened, gift card stolen and envelope re-sealed and delivered. My mother reported it to the USPS who launched a criminal investigation. The use of the card was traced to a store near her, and the security cameras had recorded the person who used it, and he was arrested. He was a USPS employee.
I have never dealt with stolen concert tickets but the great thing about concert tickets is you know the seat numbers (I hope). If the police are willing, they can easily get the people who use the tickets. Even if they are innocent victims, the tickets are stolen property and I believe can be confiscated as such. It might be possible to trace them back to whoever actually stole them, but maybe not. Even if it does that doesn’t get you into the concert but it might get some justice.
As to liability for the loss, IANAL and I don’t know what typically happens in that kind of scenario for an eBay purchase.
Just be careful about which category of chargeback you file; the guys on the community board will advise.
Mindfield - my understanding is that technically, postal insurance is for the benefit of the sender; there are a lot of opinions and seller disclaimers to the contrary and the fact that insurance is at the buyer’s option seems contradictory too, but I’m sure that’s the legal position. How it plays out in reality and in the ebay system, of course may be different in practice.
One thing’s for certain, as soon as you bid, you’ve agreed to the seller’s terms of sale. I did get someone who wanted to up postage to Northern Ireland from England, as if I was living on Craggy Island :rolleyes: I beat him back down with the fact that he had posted P&P rates already and couldn’t go back on them.
The thing about insurance claims is that, like any insurer, claims will be examined and re-examined for even the smallest hole they can wriggle through in order to get out of honoring it. The slightest whiff of liability on either the part of the sender or of the recipient will instantly absolve the postal system from any responsibility. As an example, goods that come damaged on arrival will usually be found to be the fault of the sender not packaging them properly – and most postal services will tell you that they are not responsible for damage if the package was not adequately protected from damage. (In effect, it’s a tacit understanding that the postal system will be pretty damn rough on your parcel so you’d better pack it accordingly)
Theft and loss is another matter, though. In this case, the suggestion to call the authorities is a good one; it won’t recover any money and the tickets will be useless by the time they are recovered, but they can be traced to the ticket holders, which may lead them back to the scalper which may in turn lead them to whomever sold the tickets to him in the first place.
Incorrect. As Mangetout pointed out- it is the responsibility of the seller to get (paid for) merchandise to the buyer*. Just as it is the responsibility of the buyer to get payment to the seller. If soemthing happens to the payment while en route the buyer must make good- if something happens to the merchandise while en route- the seller must make good. For example- if the buyer had sent cash (by request of the seller) and the envelope arrived but it had an appearance of beening opened and the cash apparently taken out- would the seller still ship? *Of course not. *
If the seller wasn’t responsible for the goods getting there* , then what would stop them from mailing a empty package to their customer? Or better yet- an empty package that looks tampered. :dubious:
Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. It’s also a very bad buy. In general, unless the goods are fragile and expensive, don’t get it. Also, be wary of sellers who insist that you pay for insurance that covers their loses, not you. (It’s not very expensive so if you want the stuff bad enough, just figure you’re throwing a little extra money the sellers way). AND (attention CookingWithGas), never buy from sellers that say they are “not responsible” for goods getting to you. That shows three things: They are ignorant of the law, they don’t give a rats-ass about customer service, and even though you *will * prevail in a complaint, it won’t be fast or easy. Avoid them like the plague.
There are special exemptions when stuff is shipped “FOB”. In this case, the seller is responsible for delivering the good only to the common carrier- who then inspects and then also assume the responsibilty of delivery. Only big shit is shipped FOB, and usually business to business (and usually by rail). It would be extremely unusual for EBay goods to be shipped FOB.
Pushkin- again, incorrect. The sellers ToS can not over-ride Federal, State or local law, and they also do not over-ride eBays rules. Thus, if the sellers ToS violate the law or eBays/Paypals rules, they are null & void.
Chew- I’d say that a full refund of what you paid for the tickets is fair. Since you can see he did pay for the postage, it’d be petty to make him refund that, too. Paypal will help you here.
It’s a tough situation. We ship a lot of stuff and the USPS has lost a LOT of packages over the years. It’s annoying when it’s a $10 product, but when it’s a $50 or $100 product it hurts the bottom line pretty fast.
It’s really asinine that insurance is even offered. They should damn well deliver every package, every time! (Assuming it follows their guidelines and has a clear, valid To: address on it.)
Well of course, I didn’t mean any ToS can override laws, government or EBay. If they are legal and you bid, you agree. It would be assumed that bidding and agreeing would mean you had checked nothing illegal was happening.
I believe he is, in fact, incorrect. It depends on state laws. I live in Pennsylvania, which sets a maximum price for tickets bought or sold for events in PA to be face value + a certain markup. This only applies to PA residents as well. I once had Steeler tickets that had a face value of $110, and the most I could sell them for was $275–ebay had the limits already pre-set. I would assume that in a state that prohibits scalping, ebay would limit the purchasing to face value.
I have also seen Steeler tickets for sale by out of state residents with a note that the maximum bid by a PA resident could be X amount.
That’s sort of the point; you’re not allowed to auction off concert tickets; you can only have a BIN at or below face value unless you are an authorized ticket agent or are offering a “Ticket Package” (with some rules). If you are listing it auction style and are a private seller who is not selling a ticket package, you may not accept anything over the face value of the ticket(s) even if the final value exceeds it.
I should point out that randomlyblanks is correct in that certain states may have more lenient laws regarding ticket resales – but you are still bound by the laws of your state with regards to resale pricing.
The seller is 100% responsible for getting the item to you in the stated condition.
Any seller that says, “sorry, it’s the Post Office’s fault and you aren’t responsible because you didn’t pay insurance” is COUNTING on you to not to call his/her bluff.
File grievances with both eBay and PayPal.
Do a chargeback with your CC company.
RIGHT AWAY.
Right. However, this can become important if the Seller doesn’t state the S&H charges clearly, and they turn out to be WAY WAY too high. You can then refuse to pay them as such fees would be a violation of eBays rules. Note, if they are just a few bucks too high you’re shitoutofluck.