Ebay payment

In My Humble Opinion
21

>> I have not posed a greater attack on your integrity than you have on his.

You have accused me of being dishonest and lacking integrity. Whatever I said my thoughts were about the other guy, there is absolutely nothing in my postings to support your accusation.

>> Accepting credit cards through PayPal is accepting credit cards

Dear sir or madam (as the case may be), you are WRONG. "I accept credit cards means “I have a merchant account and can process payments”. Using Paypal is not paying him with a credit card. I would be using a credit card (or whatever) to pay Paypal, then Paypal pays him. When I transfer money to paypal I am merely getting cash from my credit card and depositing it into my account in Paypal. Later the money is transferred to the seller’s account by Paypal. The credit card is no part of the payment to the seller and offers no protection in case something goes wrong.

If you go to the store and say “we accept credit cards”, it means they can process them. Having an ATM around the corner (or even on the premises) where you can get cash to pay them, does not mean they accept credit cards.

You may not understand it or bothered to read the Paypal terms but here is a world of a difference, legally and conceptually.

>> To imply that he lied is wrong

I have never implied that he lied. I am quite sure it may have been innocent ignorance, just like yours, but the fact is he advertised something which he cannot deliver.
>>You’re being a jerk, complaining that “technically” he doesn’t accept credit cards because a third party processes the transaction.

No, I am not being a jerk, You are. Paying him with a credit card I have a protection which I do not have otherwise and I want to have that protection. If Paypal offered the same protection I would have no problem using it. but they don’t.

>> “Yeah, right! What a weasel!!”. I think this is lipservice. No matter what we say, this guy won’t be able to please you, and you will consider him priviledged to get a neutral rating for his trouble.

You are accusing me of lying. For what purpose? What makes you think I do not want to complete the transaction? And, if so, why would I come here and ask for advice on how to best complete it? You are a much bigger idiot than I thought.

Needless to say, your idiotic and insulting post is not helping me find a better way to deal with the situation. It also contains incorrect information about Paypal and credit cards.

If all you have to do is spread misinformation and accuse me of dishonesty, then I would ask you to stay away. I am looking for ways to successfully resolve this issue.

22

I’m not getting in the middle of this pissing contest, as you two seem to be doing quite well on your own. I would just like to weigh in with my take on it. My ebay feedback is currently at 219 with no negatives, and more than half of that is from selling.

There is no choice when selling to list Paypal instead of Visa and MC for payment options. It is common practice on ebay to pick that listing when Paypal is your only CC option. I don’t think (Only my opinion, take that FWIW) that you are justified in singling this part of the transaction out as a bone of contention.

23

Sailor, it’s your thread, and as it’s not supposed to be an argument, I will apologise and humbly withdraw. Good luck getting the answers you’re looking for.

/me retreats.

24

sailor, can you post the auction URL?

25

Cazzle, Sailor-could you guys please take it to the Pit?

What was the seller’s negative feedback? And what is escrow?

26

I sell things on EBAY once in a while, and I post that I accept Credit cards(throught paypal). Paypal is NOT a cash advance, and you can do a charge back if you get ripped off. Only thing is that most likely Paypal will cancel your account if you do this. I have used paypal to pay for stuff, and it shoes up as a charge, not a cash advance. Their rules specifically talk about charge backs, so obviously they can be done.
I also will not use escrow. It is too much of a hassle.
(I have never ripped anyone off)

I prefer not to use UPS, because they tend to damage too much of what they ship and then refuse to pay the insurance claim. I have a long story about this, but I wont post now.

If you bid on his auction, on his terms, you should go through with it. I doubt he is gonna rip you off, and if he does, you CAN charge it back through your credit card company.

I have actually had a non paying bidder bounced from ebay for not paying for an item. He files a complaint with EBAY, and you will get put on probabtion as well.

27

cazzle, I hope you appreciate I am putting quite a bit of effort into trying to resolve this and I have enough aggravation as it is. The guy just ignores my questions and keeps sending Paypal bills. I am trying very hard to contain myself so I may resolve this.

mouthbreather, your input is very helpful and is exactly the type of input I was looking for. Thanks.

I realize the guy was not trying to mislead buyers but when he posted he accepted credit cards. It seems most people are not aware of the important difference. But when I see he accepts credit cards, I believe I am protected and now it turns out it is not the case. I am not blaming him but I do want to be protected and I think I am being reasonable about it.

At the same time, the guy is pretty much showing to be a jerk. I write him nicely to ask why he won’t accept escrow but he just ignores my questions and sends me more bills through paypal. In my book, that’s a jerk. Still, I am trying to work it out with him.

Guinastasia, escrow is a legal situation where a third party holds funds while a transaction is done. It is used widely, when you buy a home or in other instances.

You can go to http://www.tradenable.com and read about how they do it. Basically, I send them the money, they tell the seller they have the money, the seller ships, when I receive the item I give the OK to release the money to the seller or work out any problems with him. The escrow company will NOT release the money to anyone until both parties are in agreement.

From his end it works pretty much like paypal except he does not get the money until I receive the item and OK it or after about three days if I have not followed very strict guidelines.

If the guy has a really good reason for not using escrow (I can’t think of one) I would be willing to drive up the Cherry Hill to pick up the item personally.

To me he seems more like a disorganized jerk than like he’s trying to stiff me. He says he has sold under many different names but he won’t tell me what they are or why he would do this… I forget what the bad feedback was. One was because he disappeared and never contacted the seller (who did not send payment). His excuse was something like “my computer was on the fritz for three weeks”. That’s fine by me but what if I send him the cash and his computer goes on the fritz again? He seems like a young, irresponsible, person rather than a bad guy. A responsible person finds another computer to email from.

28

bdgr, you say I am protected and can charge back if I use paypal.

>> Paypal is NOT a cash advance, and you can do a charge back if you get ripped off

In that case, obviously, I have no problem using Paypal and would promptly pay up. Can you tell me where I can find that guarantee in writing? I have been all over Paypal and I cannot find it, in fact, I get much the opposite impression. Of course, I could be wrong and that is precisely why I am asking for help here.

Handy’s post says he is waiting 6 months later for Paypal to respond. It does not sound as a ringing endorsement to me

as far as preferring to use USPS vs UPS or whatever, I am listening and trying to accomodate him. I would think UPS would be more convenient to him as the pick it up at his place but, as I say, I am flexible and willing to work something out with him.

At this rate it seems I may be driving to Cherry Hill… <sigh>

29

I don’t know if you mentioned this earlier or not, I may have missed it. This does seem kind of shady.

If he’s not answering any of your questions and just responding with a bill, I’d tell him to get stuffed. It’s one thing to expect the seller to abide by terms stated in the auction, but if he’s just being an outright ass, then forget about it and suck up the potential negative feedback. I wouldn’t sweat it if you have a positive and this would be his third negative feedback out of ten. Anytime I consider cancellign a bid becasue of bad feedback, I also look at who the bad feedback is originating from. If you get the (-) feedback, then in your reponse just calmy tell people to email you for the full story, and tell people to look at his feedback and consider the source. Don’t be petty or insulting when you respond in your feedback. It just reflects poorly on you.

30

mouthbreather, BTW, why do you say escrow is a hassle? Maybe I am missing something but I believe it is quite straightforward with no hassle involved.

I realise it would be foolish to demand use of escrow for $10 but we are talking $170 and that is not small change to me

I am being quite polite as I really want to complete the deal. My emails are carefully and politely written and I think anyone looking at the whole exchange will have to see who is being reasonable and who is not.

Another point; in my experience with the courts, there is no way in the world a judge would consider putting money in escrow to be a way of trying to get out of a deal. Much to the contrary. It shows your committment to completing the deal.

That is why, when you make an offer on a house, you put money in escrow

31

This actually depends on whether or not the guy is verified through paypal. There are different statuses (statii?) of paypal users, verified and unverified. If they are verified, then you are offered protction under paypal and ebay. I hope this doesn’t violate board policies on copywritten jazz, but I took this from Paypal’s site (you have to log into your account before you can view this page, so I can’t link to the source):

So, when you enter his email address to send money, it should immediately tell you if this seller is verified or unverified, before you complete the payment.

Also, just saw your question in preview – I guess I shouldn’t have said that it “is a hassle”. I’m sure that escrow is very easy to use, I just automatically (right or wrong, i don’t know…but it does happen) get annoyed when a buyer, after the auction ends, wants to set different terms than were stated in the auction. I suppose if the buyer insisted I would do it.

I’m not impying that you are trying to get out of the deal by insisting on escrow. I agree that $170 is not chump change. But, (not to beat a dead horse) If you wanted escrow, you should get that settled before you place your bid. Ebay does say in all auctions “You should contact the seller to resolve any questions before bidding”.

So – It’s not unreasonable for you to ask for escrow, but realize that because you are asking for it at this stage of the game that he is not at all obligated to do so.

32

I’ve bought some things on ebay,
but been bad on checking feedbacks,
so now I’m goign to start to do that
because of this thread, thanks.

33

mouthbreather, thanks for the info which I much appreciate. The guy is not verified so that does not apply.

It’s not like I changed my mind out of nowhere. I wrote him at first asking if he minded using UPS and he just ignored my questions. When I repeated them he came back with a very rude message. This is what propmpted me to be more cautious. I was ready to pay him with Paypal until that moment.

I guess the real lesson here is that if you act as a jerk, things get more difficult.

I have bought a ton of stuff on the Net lately and had no problem. A bunch of books on Half.com … no questions asked, pay upfront as I can risk 8 or 10 or 15 dollars.

http://www.hamiltonbook.com/ I sent them a check for $75 without even asking if they had the books in stock

But a guy who failed to deliver an item because his computer was down and then starts acting like a jerk with me for no reason… I take precautions.

BTW, if i was not so interested in the item I would have told him long ago to get stuffed. I don’t enjoy taking crap from jerks. that is not part of the deal.

34

Not that it has any bearing on the ebay issue but I mentioned I sent las week a check for some books. The check has not shown up in my account yet but the books arrived today at my door. I am impressed as I assumed they would wait for the check to clear. Now I have a bunch of books about boats and ships to read while I wait to resolve the ebay thing :slight_smile:

35

sailor, you’ve asked several times about what “the process” and “the custom” is. Screw that. You and the seller are at a virtual garage sale. If you don’t trust him, tell him you insist that he deliver it to you through escrow, you’ll pay the escrow charges, and that’s how it is. Be sure to add that if he chooses to back out of selling you the item you’ll give him a third bad rating. For you to back out of an agreed upon transaction would be wrong, but mandating the security of the transaction is not.

Of course, you should phrase the above in a positive, non-confrontational way. But positive and non-confrontational don’t mean backing down and trusting someone who you clearly don’t trust. Insist on the escrow.

Of course, make a couple of mental notes for next time: a) check the references before bidding, and b) email the person ahead of time if you have questions about how it’ll be shipped, etc.

36

BillH, thanks for that input. Yes, that’s pretty much how I feel. You have expressed it very well.

I have emailed him telling him to understand I am just asking him to consider any method that safeguards my position. I will accept escrow or anything else he proposes as long as I am safe. I have asked him to esxplain his preferences and why he would not like to use escrow. I have worded it very politely and assured him I am eager to complete the transaction. I have yet to hear from him but at least he has stopped sending me bills.

It is a shame the guy acted like a jerk beacuse I would have paid with ebay and (hopefully) completed the transaction by now.

A year ago I purchased a laptop for about $650 on ebay. The guy was fantastic. I proposed escrow and we worked it out together and he even offered to split the cost. After he had sent me the computer he found a mouse and a carrying case and he made another shipment to me. Most importantly he was really nice and congenial and helpful. Included with the computer was supposed to be a long term maintenance contract and he was supposed to have it transferred to my name… I never insisted because I know he was trying to make the effort and make things well for me. If a guy is nice I am going to try to be even nicer.

But if a guy is a jerk, then I will treat him like a jerk. The other thing, of course, is that if he had accepted escrow he would have saved himself all this hassle and he would have the money by now.

The reason I am asking about customs and practices is because it helps me interpret what’s going on. For example, most people, even if they are mistaken, believe paying with a credit card through paypal is like paying directly. The fact that many people are in that error shows me this guy is probably in the same error in good faith, rather than trying to lie to me. Most people probably discover the truth when they run into a problem and find out they are not covered.

I would try to follow the local custom unless I have serious problems with it.

We’ll see how this one works out

37

**
From the Paypal website:
When you receive funds through PayPal, if the sender’s transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. You agree to reimburse PayPal from either your PayPal account or by other means.
**

This indicates that you can reverse, or charge back. Paypal isn’t gonna advertise this, because they get screwed when it happens. Many retailers don’t want their customers to know this is an option. Many times I have got a refund when a retailer first refused, by pointing this out. It is a federal law that the card company must reverse the charges if you get screwed and make an effort to resolve the problem.

The only other evidence is that I have payed with Paypal, and it showes up on my statement as a charge, not a cash advance(they charge more for cash advances).

That is going through paypals complaint resolution. I would go through my credit card company if it took that long.

38

**
From the Paypal website:
When you receive funds through PayPal, if the sender’s transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. You agree to reimburse PayPal from either your PayPal account or by other means.
**

This indicates that you can reverse, or charge back. Paypal isn’t gonna advertise this, because they get screwed when it happens. Many retailers don’t want their customers to know this is an option. Many times I have got a refund when a retailer first refused, by pointing this out. It is a federal law that the card company must reverse the charges if you get screwed and make an effort to resolve the problem.

The only other evidence is that I have payed with Paypal, and it showes up on my statement as a charge, not a cash advance(they charge more for cash advances).

That is going through paypals complaint resolution. I would go through my credit card company if it took that long.

39

Sorry about the double post. Kept timing out

Also from paypals website, and more to the point

40

bdgr, thanks for that info but I have been staring at it for a while and I really can’t make much sense of it. It takes an attorney to write something like that and it probably takes a team of them to decypher it.

My interpretation is this: if you are a buyer, then their position is that they have provided the service you asked for (the transfer of funds) and are not responsible for what you do with those funds. In other words: they are going to fight any chargebacks tooth and nail and they are probably going to win.

OTOH, if you are a seller what they are telling you is that if there happens to be a successful chargeback, then you are on the hook for it (logically).

I have dealt with some chargebacks in the past and the fact is the card issuer has the upper hand with the merchant so it could be that the merchant gets stuck even though he delivered.

As I say, it is difficult to interpret the legalese. At any rate, that is directed at sellers who receive funds into their accounts from other people.

It does not say to the people who pay others that their payments are protected. Of course, I could be worng but i am not quite willing to be the guinea pig.

That is the reason I posted this thread. If a few people came out and said they paid with Paypal and then charged back without problem or hassle, then I would pay him with paypal…

Hmmm, I just had an idea… I should call Mastercard and ask them