Ebay purchase turns sour. Advice, please?

Here’s the story. I bought a set of books on Ebay from a seller with very good feedback (99.6% positives over more than 20000 sales). I paid £5.50 for them, plus £5 for postage. Unfortunately the books reeked badly of cigarette smoke, but the auction didn’t mention this, nor had any squirrelly language, like “sold as seen”, or “old and battered so don’t bother me”.

So I contacted the seller, who told me he couldn’t check these things because he had no sense of smell. I could send back the lot and ask for a refund, but postage in either directions would not be refunded. This struck me as unfair: I would lose the 5 quid I paid the guy, and be stuck with whatever it cost me to send the lot back - let’s say another 3-4 pounds. So I’d lose nearly as much as I paid for the books, with no books!

However, the guy previously sent me an email, just after he posted the books. In it, he said he was aiming to have average 5-star ratings; it’s the new Ebay feedback system, after evaluating your purchase as positive, negative or neutral you also evaluate certain criteria such as communications and speed of posting. So I had an idea. This purchase was unfair to me as it was, so I wrote to him proposing that if he refunded half of the books’ cost (not the postage, only £2.75) I’d be consider the transaction fair and would be happy to put 5 stars for his feedback.

Now it turns out this was a mistake. After a bit of back and forth, where he whined about costs and how this is his only source of income, I reduced my request to a refund of £2, to he replied he’d be ok with a refund of 1.50, considering it a token gesture in exchange for the 5-star feedback. Then today I got an alert from Ebay on “feedback extortion”. Threatening sellers to leave negative feedback in order to obtain additional goods or services is not allowed. Apparently my offer of a compromise was a mistake.

That pissed me off a lot. I was not trying to obtain extra stuff, I was trying to make the deal a fair one. He sold me smelly books and didn’t write they were in the auction. His refund policy leaves me stuck with double postage costs, losing as much money and leaving me with nothing. I’d not have bid on those books if I knew they were that bad; but the way things are, with the purchase done, I’d rather sort out things peacefully and make the deal a fairer one. I would not have paid 5 quid for them, but I’d have paid 2 quid. I even offered to accept a worse deal than that (asking for a 2 pound refund means I end up paying 3.50 for smelly, unusable books). Now this complaint.

I understand where the guy comes from. If what he wrote is true, this is his only source of income, he cannot personally check for smells and he has to watch his margin on every transaction. I don’t want to be too harsh on the guy. On the other side, well, the Sales of Goods Act of 1979 still applies to him, and I paid fucking 10 quid for books that smell like a pub’s ashtray, and he never said a word about it!

So, what are my best options in your opinion?

If he has over 20,000 sales and “depends on eBay for his income”, I would cut him no slack. He’s a professional, and ought to behave like one. Either he does a reasonable deal, or he gets negative feedback.

Incidentally, is this thing of not refunding postage costs something he can do?

I guess I’m cynical, because I don’t believe for a second that he has no sense of smell.

I’d leave honest, negative feedback.

Yeah, I don’t believe it either. And if it’s true, then he should be getting a helper who does have a sense of smell. It’s absolutely routine to certify books and other items as from non-smoking, non-pet homes or the other way 'round, and it’s part of his job as a professional to put that in. If he can’t sniff himself, he can get someone else to.

It is a violation of eBay policy to threaten to give negative feedback in return for the seller doing something for you, even if that something is a totally legit refund request, so yeah, beware of that in the future.

That being said, he should refund you the cost of the books plus at least the postage you initially paid. That would be minimal service, IMO. Excellent service would be additionally paying for the cost to ship the books back. Since he is not willing to perform even minimal service, I’d have no qualms whatsoever about giving him negative feedback and low stars.

I would drop all hopes of getting any money back and leave your negative feedback. It does sound unfair though…

Also, you might try some of the tips here: How to Remove Cigarette Smell from Books | ThriftyFun
for treating your books.

Yes - I’d probably turn my attention to getting the stink out, since it looks like you are probably stuck with the books. This suggestion looks intriguing:

http://www.bookologist.com/cab/abu/y203/m10/bk0013/s03

We’ve used baking soda before on magazines purchased from Ebay that arrive reeking of ashtray, it does work but you must give it some time.

For £10.50 I’d cut my losses and simply leave honest feedback. Take it as a lesson to always ask the seller if the books have come from a smoker’s home before you bid.

Whether he’s genuine about having no sense of smell or routinely sells smelly books, wouldn’t you want other buyers to be aware?

If he’s depending on this sort of thing for a living, then he absolutely needs to tell people about the condition of the items he offers. Or he should put a standard disclaimer in his listings to the effect that he has random sources and no sense of smell, and can’t tell if something reeks of smoke…or cat piss, which I think is even worse.

Generally, I do ask the seller if something is smoke free if it isn’t specified, because I’ve been burned a couple of times myself. I don’t really care if something came from a pet free place, because I have three cats who are only too willing to shed all over my new aquisition if it doesn’t already have pet dander on it. :smiley:

Seriously, though, I think that you need to write to eBay and tell them that this guy sold you books that reeked of smoke, claimed not to know that they stink, and doesn’t want to fix his mistake. You were not attempting to extort anything from him, IMO. And no matter what the outcome, I think that you should leave negative feedback, and a note saying that this seller can’t smell and will sell stinky merchandise.

I agree.

I saw a program on TV about eBay. According to that, a bunch of sellers were uber pissed because eBay changed their fees or whatever and the little guys (mom and pop, arts and crafts, etc.) say it drove them out of biz. Point being, the (20K) seller is the horse pulling this cart, and if there’s any doubt about this they’re going to err on his side.

I am an eBay seller.

When sales have gone sour in the past, either if I’ve done something wrong, or even if the buyer did something wrong (like purchase the wrong size, even though it’s clearly stated in the auction), I’ve done a full refund of the purchase price, plus shipping, plus the return shipping.

Even though it costs me money, it’s the right thing to do, unless the auction clearly states some caution about the smoke smell, or the seller’s being unable to smell (really?), or whatever caution. Even then, it’s a matter of customer service, and your situation doesn’t sound unreasonable.

I wouldn’t make a deal with him - partial refunds are a major way shady buyers try to rake sellers over the coals. Just leave a heavy negative in his feedback - he’s being a bad seller, and the stars you give him should reflect that. And he doesn’t sound professional or even reasonable.

Wow, is it that much of a bad thing? I honestly thought I was making everything fairer, I pay less money and he still gets a successful transaction. I’ll remember that.

Since you’re an Ebay seller, I’d like to ask you a question. is this policy of not refunding postage something common? Is it allowed? Do I agree to stick to this condition, or other conditions by a seller, if I bid on an item?

Re: the partial refund - I didn’t mean that you were a bad guy, it’s just that under the new feedback system, many buyers were trying to get a backdoor discount by threatening to leave low feedback. I’m sure that, in your case, it was inadvertant.

About the postage refund - to me, it’s crazy not to refund the postage. Ebay is (kinda) a Wild West-type place, and everyone has their own position. I would say that, unless it is spelled out specifically in the auction terms, it is to the seller’s advantage. My auctions always say I refund both the purchase and shipping, and I indicate it’s both delivery and return. I do it as a marketing tool - it’s makes me look like a nice seller.

But, no, there are no rules about that, generally. Check the auctions terms, and give your business to those of us who play fair. :wink:

As I was reading the OP the first thought that occurred to me was feedback extortion. That’s a definite no-no on eBay. Just make your request for some settlement. If you’re not happy just leave negative feedback. End of story. Also, ever heard of caveat emptor? In the future ask about the condition of the merchandise before bidding and if you’re not satisfied with the response (or non-response) just don’t bid. In this case, the amount paid was really a small price for a lesson hopefully learned.

I disagree, regarding caveat emptor. I don’t expect to have to ask the seller of any item I might bid on whether it reeks of smoke, is damaged, or is otherwise in poor condition. If it’s in poor condition, due to smell or any other reason, the seller should mention that in the item description.

But yes, don’t use negative feedback as leverage or a threat. eBay doesn’t care how justifiable or innocent it was; they consider it feedback extortion and it’s a definite violation of their rules.

The thing to do is only purchase on eBay through a CREDIT CARD FUNDED paypal or direct CREDIT CARD transaction. That way if the seller pulls something you just dispute the credit card.

As one poster noted it’s not within eBay rules to trade feedback for favours, nor is it helpful to anyone else as you not being honest to others.

I don’t mean to rap the original poster, but I would like him to think about this. Right now you’re going through a mess, suppose the buyer right before you went through the same thing but traded “bad feedback” for a cut on the price. If that guy had posted the correct feedback you wouldn’t be in the same place you are now, as you would’t have bought from him.

Also very and this is VERY important to remember. I said buy with a CREDIT CARD funded paypal account. You don’t get as much protection any other way. And this is extremely important to remember if you sell and buy on eBay a lot.

Paypal always takes money from your account BEFORE any credit card charge.

For example, let’s say I sell on eBay and I sell my Olivia Newton-John CD (no that’s a bad example 'cause no one would ever sell an Olivia Newton-John CD, unless they’re crazy.)

Anyway let’s say you forgot to take your Prozac and sold your ON-J Cd and now have $50.00 in your account from the guy who paid you for it. (And at getting quite a bargain too:))

So you buy a book for a hundred dollars and use your paypal funded with a CREDIT CARD.

Now here is what paypal does, if you have ANY money in your paypal account Paypal uses that first.

So in this case you sold a CD for $50.00 and bought a book for $100.00.

What Paypal does, even if you tell them to use your credit card backed PayPal, to buy the $100 book, Paypal takes the first $50.00 from your money account and charges the remainder (in this case $50.00) to your credit card.

So now you’re only getting $50.00 worth of credit card protection.

While Paypal has its own protections they don’t come close to credit card protections.

So make sure before you buy anything with Paypal to clear any money paid to you out of your Paypal account and into your bank account.

Meh. I know smoke smells can linger for a while, but given some time how bad can it really be? And you’re acting all indignant about spending 10 pounds. (what, 16 bucks?) For someone buying used books you seem pretty picky.

Bad. There are things you can do to diminish the smell (posted up-thread) but an item that has been stored in a smoker’s household can range anywhere from “kind of mildly smells like smoke when you flip through the pages” to “reeks from a distance and will stink up the whole room if left there.”

I too am an eBay seller and have the exact same refund policy. Often I will tell them to keep the item just to avoid paying the return postage.

I better keep my mouth shut, I been warned about flaming outside the Pit before.