Another eBay rant - long and probably lame.

The BBQ Pit
1

Why I hate eBay.

I am mainly a buyer, and have been for over a decade. So, my interactions with eBay regarding price hikes, and how they are constantly sticking it to sellers is largely not a battle I deal with. I get to deal with those sellers, who are becoming more and more of an angry, grumpy lot.

My latest gripe stems from a buy gone bad, which happens. I don’t blame eBay for that, and usually, I don’t even blame the seller, unless they did something that was intentional.

So, this was one of those cases where the seller tried to “pull a fast one”, and I refused to go down without at least letting eBay know what happened, and to leave the proper feedback for this transaction.

The event: I win an auction for about $12. The shipping is around $8, so all in I’m about $20 in the hole. As usual, shipping was extremely over-inflated, but I don’t usually bitch about shipping since I know the seller has to pack it, buy the peanuts or bubble wrap, tape, and maybe even gas to run it to the post-office. Plus, it lets them recoup some of the eBay fees, so I usually let it slide. I did in this case as well.

The items were a small lot of puzzles, older items that were played with but definitely looked intact via the pictures taken. So I bid and win and think I did pretty good, as each puzzle is about $4 in average cost. Not bad.

However, when they arrived at my doorstep, I immediately sensed a problem. With my nose. I could smell the box from inside my house (it was leaning in the outside of the door), and it reeked of cigarette smoke. I dreaded opening the box, because I could just imagine the smell waiting for me. And I wasn’t disappointed. I could have sworn I actually saw a cloud of smoke billowing out of the box as I opened it (not really, but I exaggerate for effect), and the entire area where I opened the box (the kitchen and counter area where food is often prepared) is completely polluted. I have to take the box out into the garage to open it completely without fouling up the air quality in my home. Each puzzle was wrapped in bubble wrap, but as I took the wrap off, the smoke smell got stronger. The only thing I could thin of was that the person selling this crap to me was smoking as he wrapped it up, trapping the smoke inside the box, the bubble wrap, the tape, and the newspaper he used to fill out the box. I almost gagged.

After getting all of the puzzles unwrapped, I began to look at them and wouldn’t you know it, they were indeed crap. Pieces were missing from two of the puzzles, one was broken completely, one was impossible to turn without breaking it, and they were sticky from the nicotine which had gathered on these things for the past 25-30 years.

I have never left a negative feedback since joining eBay. I always try to contact the seller and work something out. This case was no different, however the seller was very different.

We had a very lively email exchange, where I was first told that the husband and wife in the house did not smoke. Well, that may be true, but I was not told of any children, old relatives, or whoever that chained smoke non-stop to make these items thick with nicotine. You could actually scrape the nicotine off with a fingernail. Disgusting. Smoking was denied up and down. Even if they somehow picked these up at a garage sale, there is no way the outside of the box would have smelled the way it did without sitting in a room of smokers.

Anyway, I wanted my money back. And given the circumstances, I wanted them to pay the return shipping also, since they sent a box of garbage in the hopes that someone wouldn’t bother over so little money. And they were almost right. After being accused of all sorts of things, including extortion (I told the seller that if he paid for return shipping, I would give him positive feedback … Apparently in his mind, that was extortion), I contacted eBay and had them look into the case, of course they COULDN’T DO ANYTHING UNLESS I OPENED A FORMAL COMPLAINT AGAINST THE SELLER, however after reading the email exchanges between me and the seller, eBay said I did nothing wrong, there was no extortion, and I should do what I felt was right. eBay said that the seller was not obligated to pay for return shipping, so if they wouldn’t do that, they couldn’t do anything. They agreed that if things were as bad as I said, the return shipping being paid would be the right thing to do, but not required. I understood this, and decided that if I had to pay $8 to return a box of crap in the hopes that this idiot would pay me my money back, it just wasn’t worth it. Instead, I would leave negative feedback, explaining what happened, and hope the next buyer didn’t get suckered in by these people.

I had to file a case to get eBay involved to get my money back also, so they forced me to give the bad review and open the case. And everywhere along the line, I was continually asked “are you sure you want to leave negative feedback? You should contact the seller and work things out.” By ebay’s automatic messaging system. After all of this, I get a nasty email from the seller telling me that they were turning me I to the local authorities for extortion (HA!) and eBay was looking into suspending or canceling my subscription, another HA!

So, about 30 minutes after that message, I get a message from eBay saying my.money had be refunded through PayPal, and that I should send the items back.

No problem. Even though I received another vulgar message about how they refunded the money and doubted that I would send back the items, I assured them that if they wanted to receive a box of shit in the mail, I’d be happy to send it. Which I did. But I also offered to throw away the stuff because it wasn’t worth anything to anyone.

The outcome? I got my money back for the product but had to pay return shipping. However, what really pissed me off is what eBay did. After the seller spoke to them and agree to refund my money, eBay removed my negative feedback, the rating and there was nothing left to prove that the transaction ever took place! Shouldn’t my experience with this seller been permitted to remain, to warn others? But hey… They are a “Power Seller”, so eBay needs to protect that revenue stream, screw the honest buyer.

That just isn’t right. You can say that it wasn’t a lot of money (it wasn’t) or that it wasn’t worth the effort (it wasn’t), but I thought I was doing the right thing by the eBay community by eating the loss and telling the truth. No, no… Here is your money back. And since they refunded your money, we are erasing your feedback. We wouldn’t want to blemish a power seller!

As a buyer, I am disgusted with the fact that the seller has all of the power in the transaction. I am also disgusted that reading a sellers feedback means little. All it means is that I’m seeing the feedback the seller wants me to see, not anything negative.

I really wish a legitimate contender to ebay’s online monopoly would emerge.

2

There’s no way that the puzzles (and the box) could have picked up that reek level from ONE person smoking around the items while making up the package. The items had to be saturated in smoke over a long period of time.

I’ve had a couple of really smoky items from eBay, but not to that extent. I would certainly want to know if the seller had sold items that reeked of smoke, and I’m not happy that eBay chose to erase this information. That’s what feedback is supposed to be FOR.

3

I used a service for graphic designers to get extra clients, and because I had a lot of positive feedback they let me nuke like one out of twenty negative feedbacks as a part of my account. I assume this was because some people are just crazy and can’t be made happy.

Maybe ebay has something like that for people who have a lot of positive feedback?

4

I agree with you about the smoke. The smoke and nicotine was in any and every pourous spot on the puzzles. Years of being in the area of a smoker or smokers. The point I was trying to make about the box was that the box was new, or at least looked new, so the transfer of smoke did not come from these puzzles alone. It had to be sitting in the vicinity of the puff the invisible dragon. I can’t prove the seller was lying, but I told eBay I would be happy at my expense to send THEM the items to decide for themselves if I was making this whole thing up. I couldn’t believe the woman on the phone actually agreed with me that the person I was dealing with was a bit “off”, and she suggested that if I was willing to eat the cost of the transaction, negative feedback would be the best way to go.

So, with that conversation, I did exactly that. Feedback is limited to maybe 100 letters, so I was direct and to the point without being insulting or calling names. It was TRUE feedback, with no personal attacks. And they erase it less than 24 hours later?

I suspect it is something similar, but much more lax. If the seller called to complain as was obviously the case (I was told the call was made and the feedback was erased before I noticed it, so I’m sure the call was made.) There is no way you could read the exchanges between the two of us and not get an idea of who was going off the deep end, and who wasn’t. My messages were not even being read correctly, as I was being accused of things that I never even said.

This seller does have a lot of positive feedback, but here’s the thing… if feedback can be removed so quickly, how would anyone know how many times negative feedback was removed? One call was all it took… That was it, along with the refunding of my payment, I guess. So ebay figured I’d be happy and never check the feedback again. which I would never have done if the seller had not contacted me to brag about what happened.

How often does this occur? I’m guessing more than we’d like to know, simply because ebay benefits from sellers with good feedback. Sellers with high feedback generate a lot of sales so that’s more money for eBay. and that’s what it’s all about.

Feedback is just a smoke screen to keep everyone thinking that they actually have a system that exists for the users of eBay. when in fact is a rating system manipulated to make the sellers look as good as possible.

I can understand that some people can’t be pleased, but I am not one of them. A quick view of my history would show 0 (zero) negative feedbacks given. I take feedback seriously.

5

That is the only way a more equitable system will come to evolve.

I don’t have any account with eBay, I have several friends who do and any time I want to buy something, I give one of them the cash and they take care of it for me. Most of those friends are primarily sellers and I’ve heard chapter and verse on how eBay bends over backwards in favor of the buyers leaving the sellers to kiss ass, obviously a balance needs to be maintained.

I am also an almost ex smoker. I can’t smoke at work, I can’t smoke at what used to be my favorite bar and I don’t even smoke inside the house I paid for. Times change, society evolves, not always the way you might chose, I get that. If it wasn’t for the fact that a cloud of exhaled cigarette smoke is the most gratifying way to repel anti smoking zealots I might actually give up the habit once and for all.

Be that as it may, some eBay sellers are complete a-holes and some sub set of those a-holes are nicotine addicts. Yet, so far “seller is a smoker” has not yet been added to eBay’s customer complaint list. Yes, I am being glib and not addressing your complaint but to be fair, if you expressed your complaint to eBay more efficiently perhaps your already almost satisfactory resolution would be more to you liking.

“Holy Crap, item smells like an ashtray” is a valid complaint, I give you that. But view the transaction threw the eyes of a soulless and faceless corporation who’s only goal is to increase profits and mediating disputes between buyers and sellers is a necessary expense to that growing bottom line.

Don’t lead your complaint with something out of an established complaint category if you also have a complaint that does fall with one of those categories. Puzzles missing pieces is a strong complaint, it’s a (presumably) unadvertised product defect and the sort of thing eBay’s minimum wage customer service people are authorized to act on without consulting someone who is being paid to think. If you have a problem within a bureaucracy and it can be (in part) explained to people not paid to think, it’s always to your advantage to resolve your issue there. Moving your complaint up stream to bureaucratic thinkers is always a crap shoot.

Yea, I get that your core problem was with the fact that the items you purchased smelled like an ashtray and I in no way blame you for that. But the fast track to fixing the issue wasn’t to be eloquent about how much the product smelled, a decision like that from an eBay rep perspective was a judgment call and most likely above their pay grade, hammer the fact that the you bought puzzles with missing pieces and oh by the way, smelled like an ashtray. That way, even if the low paid person (thus more likely them self to smoke) you had on the phone took you for some anti-smoking zealot they would more clearly understand you had a legitimate complaint other than the smell issue.

I agree with Lynn that the odor issue would be valid feedback but eBay is dealing with some seller backlash. If the primary complaint wasn’t within the standard eBay checklist of no-nos it makes it easier for low level mediators to trade a customer refund for a feedback edit. Nicotine residue has not yet reached the level of social disgust as say, leprosy but it will eventually. But until it does don’t forget that the person you may be lodging your complaint to might not only be a smoker, but also might not have a spouse so clearly better than they deserve as to convince them not to smoke in the home they paid for.

Just sayin.

6

you make a valid point, however just for the record, I did fit this into one of ebay’s current categories, which was “item was not as described.” I then discussed the missing pieces, the broken items. etc. My “official” complaint didnt mention smoking at all.

Now, my feedback was a different story, and included smoke with missing pieces. But I know that the ebay drones need something to hang onto, so for the official complaint, I stuck to the list provided.

7

Anyone else note the following?

  1. “The shipping is around $8, so all in I’m about $20 in the hole. As usual, shipping was extremely over-inflated”
  2. " I understood this, and decided that if I had to pay $8 to return a box of crap in the hopes that this idiot would pay me my money back"

If the $8 shipping charge was extremely over-inflated, that means the return shipping charge should be much less–probably $4 or less.

8

I am glad you got at least a partial refund. Who knows, maybe one day eBay listing will include a scratch and sniff box. Hell, that might be a boon to the online dating website sector as well (only if folks couldn’t lie).

9

You should know that eBay charges the same percentage fee on shipping costs that it does on the item so the seller is not avoiding a fee and increasing income that way.

I’ve had over 400 purchases on eBay and exactly one real problem. eBay settled the matter in my favor, but I was out the return shipping costs.

Be sure to ban anyone you’ve had a dispute with from buying from you. The A-hole I disputed with turned around and bought one of my items. I refused to ship it to him and eBay allowed me to void the sale.

Most eBayers are fine to excellent, but there are some troublemakers.

I bought a hand cranked ice cream machine this summer. The photos were accurate, but it had a smokey smell. I washed it and aired it outside on my porch for a couple of weeks and then washed it again. We had a great time with it at a family reunion over the 4th of July long weekend.

10

Any cleaner with amonia such as windex will remove nicotine 100% very quickly from non pourous surfaces.

11

I noticed this also. I resell vintage items from estate/garage sales on eBay and Etsy, and it’s always surprising to me still how much it costs to mail a reasonably small package. The seller may have even lost money with that $8 shipping fee.

12

Awesome user name/post combo by the OP.

Cardboard puzzle pieces are about as porous as it gets.

13

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAH

HAHAHAHAHAH
HAHA

Whhheeew

14

Thanks for parsing the rant and pulling out this important nugget.

I didn’t know at the time what return shipping would be. The only way I would know this would be to make a trip to the post office. So the only number I had to work with was the $8 the seller provided.

Nice catch, Dick Tracy. :rolleyes:

15

I doubt it, but whatever. The point was not the cost of shipping (as I pointed out earlier. I didn’t care if the seller padded the price of postage or not.) that wasn’t the point. The point was tHat I wasn’t out that much money before I sent it back. Sending it back would give me some money back, but not enough to return the crap. Instead, I decided to eat the loss and leave bad feedback, which the person deserved. In fact, if I kept the items or sent them back, I still should have left a bad review. But I usually contact the seller if I have any problem and they have with this one exception made some effort to fix the problem.

I had one guy who realized he sent the wrong item, refund my money and told me to keep the item, even though I had it wrapped and ready to return. He didn’t have to do that, but he’s now on my favorite sellers list and if I am looking for something, I always search his site.

Try not to focus on the numbers or even the boorish seller. The problem is eBay here. I was not and am not mad at the seller if it was an honest mistake (I believe it wasn’t, but I have no proof other than common sense). So I usually don’t get into a twist until I contact the seller.

16

Well, the Internet is evil. I’m afraid to list even on Craig’s list. With my luck, I’ll sell a pair of binoculars, but the buyer is a specialist. He collects atheist guys born in the 1950s who are Jethro Tull or Rush fans. I’ll end up in his trunk ducked taped with the carpet remnant that’s in my garage.

Safer to drop off those items at the Goodwill store at night while wearing a ski mask.

17

After a repetitively screwed-up transaction involving a defective product, I reminded the company that sold it to me that I had previously left positive web-based feedback for them and that they should make the situation right.

I thought I was being subtle, but now I’m worried I’ll be charged with “extortion”. :confused::eek::(:smack:

18

I take it you are a seller?

19

Indeed. The logic that my seller was using was that I was using the threat of negative feedback to force her to do the right thing. That was the “extortion”. The best part was when she was going to contact the authorities to investigate my “extortion”. So, clearly we are not dealing with someone wrapped too tightly, making this impossible to resolve between ourselves. I wrote to the seller that trying to get the return shipping wasn’t exactly a well-thought out extortion plot. And the master criminal that I am, I couldn’t come up with something that would let me profit even in double digit dollars.

When I suggested that instead of me shipping them back, that I would just throw them away, I was accused of trying to get the things for free! Seriously, you can’t make this stuff up. I hope they arrive safe and sound at their house… And I’m betting they will be back for sale on eBay within the week.

20

It won’t remove the smoky smell IME. My husband and I bought my grandparents’ old house, and my grandfather was worse than a chain smoker. He’d light a cig in the kitchen when he was getting a cup of coffee, put it in the ashtray while he went to the bathroom (taking the coffee but not the cigarette), then light up another cig in the bathroom, leave THAT one lit (taking his coffee again), then wander into the den to light up yet another cigarette. He was doing his best to keep the tobacco industry in the black. So, I have lots and lots of experience in trying to get smoke odor out of all sorts of things. With some things, you have to just set them out in the sun and hope that the sun won’t damage them too much.

Yeah, paper, cardboard, and cloth will all soak up the smoke smell. Drywall will, too, in case anyone was wondering.