Yes, I am afraid one of these brain-dead cretins is going to firebomb some “property” and kill somebody someday. That makes it “terrorist.” ELF is composed of nothing but scum, and if they or anybody like them ever tries to destroy or vandalize my property, they will become part of the eco-system as mulch.
booklyn, you are using resources that this planet desperately needs to conserve, like air.
Did you read my post (number 18)? Did you follow the link given and read the long, long list of terroristic actions committed by members of ALF, ELF and their compatriots?
What exactly do you make of this charming little missive, sent to an employee of a targeted company?
If true, it seems fairly clear to me that this is a clear threat intended to frighten people.
Booklyn, it would do you good to remember that the idea of personal and private property in America is one of the things that sets us apart form other countries. Destroying my personal property in the name od some bullshit ideal like saving the fucking universe doesn’t make it any less terrorizing, or any less wrong than blowing up the rainbow warrior, or burning out animal labs.
Honestly, you’re not going to find a whole lot of support for your argument here. It is terrorism. These groups have terrorized untold numbers of people by their tactics, destroying personal and private property, scaring innocent people, blowing up homes, burning out cars.
Fuck’m.
Oh, and ignore WeirdDave. He has a tendency to lose his head when it comes to “libruls”.
Sam
:wally
SILENUS- is it ok that the US government bombs 25,000 civilians to death for you?Or how about not signing Kyoto to ensure you can continue to pollute not just the web but the world outside it as well? How is that not terrifying?
It is the NIMBY people like your self that think that there is an “away”, and that they own something that will be the death of us all.
Going to dinner, will return to thread after.
Here ya go
GaWd, WTF are YOU babbling about? Who said anything about liberals? Are you saying that ALF and ELF are organizations that most liberals support? I never thought of them as anything other than terrorists, and have seen no indication that the vast, vast majority of liberals see them the same way. Am I wrong about that? Do you have a cite?
OK, booklyn, I’ll slow it down for you. (by the way, misatributing quotes is a banable offense here) What exactly is it that make me a “corporate shill” (I’m self employed, BTW) and a “fascist”. Is it just because I disagree with you, and these are invective terms you like to hurl at anyone who disagrees with you? Or is it because I think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for terrorists?
Which should read, of course "I never thought of them as anything other than terrorists, and have seen no indication that the vast, vast majority of liberals don’t see them the same way.
:smack:
Look, twithopper - there is only LUCK between being an arsonist and being a murderer. What part of “people die in fires,” or “fire is not a controlled method of destroying anything,” do you not understand?
How many people have been injured, or killed, in carefully set fires, let alone firebombings? I contend you can’t give me an accurate count, even in the past years. In part because minor injuries won’t make news, because they’re so fucking common, you brain-dead twithopper. Likewise, do you even remember the recent firestorm in Nevada where a scheduled, monitored and planned burn off got out of control?
So, you don’t think firebombing property puts people at risk? I hope you live in a single family residence so it could be firebombed without you feeling terrorized.
Dave, I think I said that our misguided OP should ignore you, and that you tend to lose you head in conversations such as these. What did it seem like I was saying?
Sam
Are you out of your fucking gourd?!? When houses and vehicles burn, what do you think happens? The owner files an insurance claim, you douchebag. And where does the insurance company get the money to pay the claim? From the premiums every other policy holder pays to that company. So a little thing like torching a lot full of Hummers actually does cost somebody else in the higher rates to insure themselves against psychos like you. I’m not making any accusations, but you sound very apologetic for them. And Halliburton? Christ, your ilk will mention them in any ill-conceived concept you can! How many homes and dealerships do they own? Way to stick it to Cheney. :rolleyes:
When these little pricks actually grow up a bit and (maybe) realize how the real world works outside their dorm rooms, they’ll see that a crushing majority just wants them to quit hurting innocent people. I’d ask them how they feel about this, but much like any other terrorist group, there is no contact. Just posts to websites and vitriol in press releases.
Of course, like any other terrorist group, they have just enough face time to embolden them. It’ll only escalate from here. All I can say is I’d like a few moments alone with any of the members that can sac up for a throwdown.
I won’t call for executions, just some public responsibilty. That should serve the same purpose. :wally
Cite?
Yup. If just the US would sign the treaty, it would negate the pollution spewed from all the other countries. For all your ranting against the US, you’re giving a lot of weight to the effect of a factory in Pennsylvania on air quality in Beijing and Calcutta. Of course, we needn’t worry about those countries, as the US is the sole supplier of pollution, correct?
How are those targeted goals looking, anyway? I think I saw in a report or two the the agreed levels won’t be anywhere close to being achieved. Must be because we didn’t sign the treaty. :rolleyes:
It’s fine and well to try to save the world. But what you’re looking for won’t be accomplished with things like the Kyoto Protocol. Good intentions are woefully inadequate when dealing with something like controlling the behavior of 6 billion people. Not to mention natural changes that have been happening for 6 billion years. But if you think increasing mileage and converting the soot from a smokestack will save everyone, go for it. It’s noble, but improbable, IMO.
And I’m still waiting for someone to be honest enough to say they’re fighting for human existance, not the environment. Look, the environment will be here long after us. If we fuck it up bad enough, Ole Ma Nature will simply slough us off. Hell, the dinosaurs couldn’t make it for the most part, and they never drove a Charger. (Unless you take The Flinstones as historical documentation, which I suspect the ELF may be prone to.)
It’s funny, though, that after that event, we still have life here on Earth. Life adapted. Life still evolved. There is absolutely nothing we can do that will kill the Earth. We could set off every single nuclear weapon right now, and in the blink of an eye (cosmically) life will begin to expand again. Just not with humans. At least we know ourselves.
And isn’t that the main issue? Man is killing the Earth. Why do anything to prolong our existence? :dubious:
You might want to signal those turns, booklyn. WTF are prattling on about with the whole “bombing civilians” crap and what does it have to do with the subject at hand anyway? Others have addressed the Kyoto nonsense. The rest of your ramblings seem to indicate that you hate the idea of private property and all that goes with it. Care to confirm this? Please try to stay focused. I know it’s hard to keep the three neurons you still have firing in sync, but it would be a big help to us. Thanks.
By the way…how many animals died because of your dinner?
How do you equate the two. Civilians die in wars, be the war just or unjust.
It is up to the UN and World Court to hold the US accountable if we went to far.
For a disorganized group to start firebombing is a terrorist act and an act that cuases terror.
I do have some sympathy for the idea of stopping Hummer production, but this is not the way to do it.
Kyoto is not a balance act, it has many good points but also allows China far more leeway to pollute than the USA. Get rid of the loopholes, so it does not come across as a punishment for the US and I would agree to most of it. The entire world should work towards renewable resources and clean water and air, but Kyoto might not be the answer.
Go to Google and Search for Clearwater Hudson River PCB. Read about how change is suppose to take place.
Jim
In no way is this post intended to defend or support terrorism by any group, environmental, animal-rights, “pro-life”, or other.
However, purely in the interest of accurcay, I’d like to point out that to date, (crosses fingers) no life has been lost from environmental or animal-rights actions or attacks in the United States. [After 30 minutes of searching, I can’t provide a cite for that at the moment, but it was widely discussed in newspapers after the last annual report on terror.]
That’s not true of “pro-life” terror, racist hate terror, white supremacy terror, and various quasi-religious group terror. Simple truth, from the US Governments
So while I support our authorities looking into envoronmental and animal-rights terrorism, I definitely think it should be very far down on the list, purely based on cost/benefit analysis.
As far as I’m concerned, after they’ve got Osama and buddies, the white supremacists, and the churches that support abortion bombings, they’re welcome to go bug the phones of the bunny-huggers.
Sailboat
In no way is this post intended to defend or support terrorism by any group, environmental, animal-rights, “pro-life”, or other.
However, purely in the interest of accurcay, I’d like to point out that to date, (crosses fingers) no life has been lost from environmental or animal-rights actions or attacks in the United States. [After 30 minutes of searching, I can’t provide a cite for that at the moment, but it was widely discussed in newspapers after the last annual report on terror.]
That’s not true of “pro-life” terror, racist hate terror, white supremacy terror, and various quasi-religious group terror. Simple truth, from the US Governments
So while I support our authorities looking into envoronmental and animal-rights terrorism, I definitely think it should be very far down on the list, purely based on cost/benefit analysis.
As far as I’m concerned, after they’ve got Osama and buddies, the white supremacists, and the churches that support abortion bombings, they’re welcome to go bug the phones of the bunny-huggers.
Sailboat
I know I’m coming to this late, but for booklyn, if the purpose of the Two Elk fire at Vail wasn’t terrorism, what was it?
The ELF claimed reponsibility. Here’s how they concluded their email claiming responsibility:
It’s pretty clear to me that this was an act of terrorism. It couldn’t have been sabotage, because they didn’t object to the lodge or ski patrol headquarters, they objected to the proposed (at the time*) expansion of Vail’s skiable terrain.
*It’s since been approved, and many think the act of terrorism by ELF was a large factor in it’s approval.
I forgot to touch on this. I wonder where he gets the electricity to light his lamp and power the computer and modem to post this crap?
And how does the ISP he subscribes to power their equipment to allow him to connect? How does he get to work to pay for the connection? If he drives to work, he’s full of shit. He uses gas. If he bikes to work, he’s full of shit. It takes polluting production to make the components of the bike. If he walks to work, it takes polluting manufacturing to make the shoes.
Unless he’s dressing in leaves and walking to a field somewhere to literally live off solar power, he’s busted. Of course, seeing as he can somehow hit the right keys to make and post shit, there must be some nutrition entering his body. Even if he’s extreme enough to live by eating only natural-grown seeds and nuts, he’s depriving that species he eats from procreating, and is in effect denying further growth by killing the offspring of the innocent plants.
Who the fuck does he think he is to deny an innocent, loving plant from continuing their existence?
And what right does he have to wear clothing whatsoever? he’s stealing from nature. If he’s wearing hemp clothing, he’s stealing and killing hemp plants for his own use.
What an asshole. He cares nothing of nature nor the environment. I’m appalled.
:: extends her left hand to duffer’s right ::
Gotta give the ELF/ALF/etc. nutcases one thing – they make all the rest of us look sane and reasonable, and bring us together on at least one issue.
Always amazing, isn’t it?
Jim