Educate me on a few Dungeons & Dragons questions.

[Euthanasiast]

I have been recently looking into getting back into playing (played many years ago and actually think we got most of it wrong back then) Dungeons & Dragons, but there are a few questions I have about the mechanics/dynamics of the game that I was hoping I could get some straight answers on. My questions are based on the 3.5 rule set and I have no real interest to invest in the new 4.0 edition at this time.

Per several recommendations, I have been looking hard at the Pathfinder series, particularly Rise of the Runelords starting with Burnt Offerings. It is essentially a slight adjustment from the 3.5 core rules of the current D&D set but I was told to look into it because the story lines and quality were about the best ever written. In looking over the first adventure, I am very excited about the material. This looks to be a serious quality piece of work by a dedicated group looking to create a whole new world and get the most out of the 3.5 rules. Their main offering is just entering Beta and is currently free to download the main rulebook and Player’s guide, etc. I recommend giving it a look.

At any rate…

Getting a group together might be a bit of a problem, as I am in a small town, and I imagine there aren’t a lot of players around here. This means that I’ll have to ‘convince’ my friends to give this a try and teach them how to do the basics. This means I need to know my stuff and be ready to go if and when I can get them all seated at a table. The trouble is that I have several questions that aren’t being directly addressed in the core books (admittedly I only have the Player’s Handbook and the Monster Manual at the moment, but looking to get the DM Guide very soon, and some of the answers could be in there).

Do the players start out at level 0 or level 1? I’ve seen references to both in various literature and even in the Player’s Handbook. If adventure modules are rated for characters 1-4, doesn’t that mean pretty much ready to go with ink barely dried on the character sheet, or do I have to find my way from level 0 to 1 first somehow?

What’s the smallest playable group that you can run an adventure with and still have all of the fun? Are there any great examples of modules that account for small groups, say even as small as one DM and one player?

Is it abnormal for a DM to run the game and have a player in the group as well, or does that cause problems with the game?

Is there a web location dedicated to teaching how to be a great (or at least effective) DM, targeting someone with precious little experience?

Any tips on finding players, recruiting persons that have trepidations about role playing with dice but love the current MMOs that are running (WOW, Age of Conan, Vanguard)? How do I get them to step back in time, back to the dice era?

There may be other questions as they come to me, but that’s the basic stuff for now. Thanks for all your time.

[Alessan]

@Euthanasiast

Do the players start out at level 0 or level 1? I’ve seen references to both in various literature and even in the Player’s Handbook. If adventure modules are rated for characters 1-4, doesn’t that mean pretty much ready to go with ink barely dried on the character sheet, or do I have to find my way from level 0 to 1 first somehow?

Level 0 no longer exists. In fact, most people don’t start at level 1 anymore - they just roll (figuratively - nobody actually roles dice for ability scores) 3rd or higher level characters

@Euthanasiast

What’s the smallest playable group that you can run an adventure with and still have all of the fun? Are there any great examples of modules that account for small groups, say even as small as one DM and one player?

For the past 15 years or so I’ve payed with just two other people. So 1 DM, 2 players seems to be workable. Anything less than that is kind of weird.

@Euthanasiast

Is it abnormal for a DM to run the game and have a player in the group as well, or does that cause problems with the game?

My DM almost always adds an NPC or two to the party, to balance things out and act as plot triggers. So long as you keep the players in charge of the party, you’ll be fine. Just don’t push them, and end up playing with yourself.

[Euthanasiast]

@Alessan

Level 0 no longer exists. In fact, most people don’t start at level 1 anymore - they just roll (figuratively - nobody actually roles dice for ability scores) 3rd or higher level characters

Then (and I know I’m showing my stupidity here) how do you determine your stats if you don’t roll? And isn’t starting level important for modules that dictate level 1-4? If I start us out at 1, do I need to go ahead and give XP for that level out, or do they still start at 0 xp?

[Alessan]

@Euthanasiast

Then (and I know I’m showing my stupidity here) how do you determine your stats if you don’t roll? And isn’t starting level important for modules that dictate level 1-4? If I start us out at 1, do I need to go ahead and give XP for that level out, or do they still start at 0 xp?

1. Each DM has his own method for allocating stats. Generally, they say “take 80-90 points and divide them however you like.”

2. If the module (there are still modules?) says level 1-4, there should be no problem starting at level 3.

3. 0 XP *is * 1st level. If you start out at higher level, comp your PCs with the appropriate amount of XP.

Frankly, I always hate the concept of 0 level, and ignored it back in the day. All it did was force you to play weaker characters.

[Euthanasiast]

@Alessan

1. Each DM has his own method for allocating stats. Generally, they say “take 80-90 points and divide them however you like.”

2. If the module (there are still modules?) says level 1-4, there should be no problem starting at level 3.

3. 0 XP *is * 1st level. If you start out at higher level, comp your PCs with the appropriate amount of XP.

Frankly, I always hate the concept of 0 level, and ignored it back in the day. All it did was force you to play weaker characters.

Excellent, and thank you!

Also, could you recommend some of your best adventures you’ve had in your experience. Something that would be easy for a new DM to run with plenty of excitement? I have been looking over the Pathfinder stuff and the first adventure Burnt Offerings is shaping up to be awesome. I’m seeing goblins in completely different and amusing/creepy ways.

[GreedySmurf]

I’m actually running my group through Rise of the Runelords right now. We just finished Burnt Offerings last session.

@Euthanasiast

Do the players start out at level 0 or level 1? I’ve seen references to both in various literature and even in the Player’s Handbook. If adventure modules are rated for characters 1-4, doesn’t that mean pretty much ready to go with ink barely dried on the character sheet, or do I have to find my way from level 0 to 1 first somehow?

All characters start at 1st level. As has been said, you can start your players wherever you wish. For Pathfinder there is no problems with starting them at 1st level though. In fact if you start them at 3rd, the first half dozen encounters in Pathfinder will be a cakewalk for them.

@Euthanasiast

What’s the smallest playable group that you can run an adventure with and still have all of the fun? Are there any great examples of modules that account for small groups, say even as small as one DM and one player?

There are a few modules out there for small or solo adventures but they are overwhelmingly targeted (particuarly in 3.5E) at the 4 character party. If you can’t get 4 players it only takes minor tweaks to adjust the module, and/or adding some NPC’s to the party (see below)

@Euthanasiast

Is it abnormal for a DM to run the game and have a player in the group as well, or does that cause problems with the game?

Have an actual character? Yes - can cause big problems. Running an NPC or two? No - is perfectly fine. What I mean is as the DM you don’t want to make up a full player character for yourself which you see as “your” character, depending upon the DM this can cause all sorts of problems. However it is often very helpful to have some NPC’s tag along with the players - the big difference - the players run the show - the story focuses on them and what they want to do - the NPC’s are there for support.

@Euthanasiast

Is there a web location dedicated to teaching how to be a great (or at least effective) DM, targeting someone with precious little experience?

Lots of places. I’ll see if I can come up with a few. But deifnitely go on over to Paizo’s website - very valuable forusm there for general stuff and specific stuff around the Pathfinder adventures.

@Euthanasiast

Any tips on finding players, recruiting persons that have trepidations about role playing with dice but love the current MMOs that are running (WOW, Age of Conan, Vanguard)? How do I get them to step back in time, back to the dice era?

Not sure how to offer much help here. I’m lucky in that I have a core group, that has sort of been maintained with some coming and goings.

[Euthanasiast]

@GreedySmurf

I’m actually running my group through Rise of the Runelords right now. We just finished Burnt Offerings last session.

What was your opinion of it. I’m very curious as I am skimming through that very one and I find it pretty fascinating.

@GreedySmurf

All characters start at 1st level. As has been said, you can start your players wherever you wish. For Pathfinder there is no problems with starting them at 1st level though. In fact if you start them at 3rd, the first half dozen encounters in Pathfinder will be a cakewalk for them.

I certainly don’t want that.

@GreedySmurf

Have an actual character? Yes - can cause big problems. Running an NPC or two? No - is perfectly fine. What I mean is as the DM you don’t want to make up a full player character for yourself which you see as “your” character, depending upon the DM this can cause all sorts of problems. However it is often very helpful to have some NPC’s tag along with the players - the big difference - the players run the show - the story focuses on them and what they want to do - the NPC’s are there for support.

What I meant was that I would create a character as if I was going to play as normal, but was looking to stay completely out of the way and only use him for plot triggers and subtle herding. For the most part I was looking for an extra body to help in the battles. How would an NPC character act in tagging along with the group? That’s pretty much what I wanted to do with an actual character. I just want to be able to get enough bodies to play, and my character would exist solely to allow that and to help the other noobs along. I am out to make this the best possible experience for them.

[Alessan]

@Euthanasiast

What I meant was that I would create a character as if I was going to play as normal, but was looking to stay completely out of the way and only use him for plot triggers and subtle herding. For the most part I was looking for an extra body to help in the battles. How would an NPC character act in tagging along with the group? That’s pretty much what I wanted to do with an actual character. I just want to be able to get enough bodies to play, and my character would exist solely to allow that and to help the other noobs along. I am out to make this the best possible experience for them.

That’s exactly what we meant by “running an NPC”. So long as you remember that the players are calling the shots, you’ll be fine.

[Euthanasiast]

@Alessan

That’s exactly what we meant by “running an NPC”. So long as you remember that the players are calling the shots, you’ll be fine.

Excellent. I basically want them to think I am creating a character that I am as vested in as they are with their own, but mine will serve solely for the benefit of the game and nothing else, though I do have some ideas how to use him to spice things up a little.

Thank you both for your help. Would anyone be willing to recommend any adventures that you consider some of the best of the bunch?

[Kamino_Neko]

@Euthanasiast

Is it abnormal for a DM to run the game and have a player in the group as well, or does that cause problems with the game?

It CAN cause problems. but it can work if done carefully. My DM does it, and his last one (who’s since been pummelled into catatonia) ticked us all off (including his girlfriend) - he stepped on several characters specialities, and generally ended up commanding the group, through various aspects of his character and having knowledge the rest of us didn’t - there were complaints, and he was toned down, now he’s got another, who doesn’t have the same problems (he sews a certain amount of in-party conflict, but our group enjoys that sort of thing - politics and personality conflicts almost invariably arise, and we have a lot of fun with it - if we didn’t have a DM character to start it, we would).

I do it in the game I run (theoretically…it’s on a long hiatus) - I have 2 DM characters to round out the party (and occasionally save their bacon when an encounter goes badly against them - has happened once), but they don’t dominate - one is mostly comic relief, the other gave the snarker someone to back and forth with, rather than the dimwits the other PC and my other character were (he’s the butt of the occasional joke, too…like getting jammed in the nose of a Black Dragon) - and seem to go over well.

[CandidGamera]

@Alessan

In fact, most people don’t start at level 1 anymore - they just roll (figuratively - nobody actually roles dice for ability scores) 3rd or higher level characters.

This is not at all true, based on my experiences.

To answer the OP : Characters start at Level 1; typically adventures are geared towards a 4-character party - though once you’ve got some experience, adjusitng things to smaller or larger parties isn’t too bad.

The Dungeon Master’s Guide will give you some of the general GM tips you’re seeking. As for luring the MMO players - that’s a toughie. The two things I’d emphasize to lure them in are 1.) The Flexibility of the d20 system, and 2.) the fun of getting around a table with friends and gaming into the wee hours of the night.

[glee]

In my experience (29 years), it’s a very bad idea for the DM to have a player character as well.
One player (who has since been asked to leave our group) suddenly produced a Magician who had been 5th level when we last played with him but was now 10th level. :eek:
Apparently this chap had run a few ‘adventures’ with his favourite character and (not surprisingly) had made loads of good ‘decisions’ to come up with all the treasure and experience.

As others have said, an NPC is fine. I usually have some sort of healer / sage character, who is the same level (or below) that of the PCs. They don’t make any decisions or fight much - that’s up to the players.

It’s a 1st Edition dungeon, but ‘The Village of Hommlett’ was in my opinion the best ever introductory dungeon. Players enter a small village, with many roleplaying opportunities and a nearby dungeon of levels 1-4.
You can download it cheaply here and easily adapt it to your chosen system.

[Alessan]

@CandidGamera

This is not at all true, based on my experiences.

Maybe its a matter of my age group. When you’re 15, and playing every afternoon, you have the time to slowing build a character up from 1st level, but when you’re 33 and have to deal with distractions like a job or a family, you can’t afford to wait six months before you’re powerful enough to start killing the more interesting monsters.

1st-level characters are also young. I’d be embarrassed of playing a 17-year-old - it would make me feel like one of those creepy guys who like to hang around high school kids. I’d rather act my age.

[Ludovic]

@Euthanasiast

Any tips on finding players, recruiting persons that have trepidations about role playing with dice but love the current MMOs that are running (WOW, Age of Conan, Vanguard)? How do I get them to step back in time, back to the dice era?

Unfortunately I think the answer to this question is “Run 4th Edition”

[What_Exit]

@Alessan

1. Each DM has his own method for allocating stats. Generally, they say “take 80-90 points and divide them however you like.”

2. If the module (there are still modules?) says level 1-4, there should be no problem starting at level 3.

3. 0 XP *is * 1st level. If you start out at higher level, comp your PCs with the appropriate amount of XP.

Frankly, I always hate the concept of 0 level, and ignored it back in the day. All it did was force you to play weaker characters.

1st Ed player here. When did 0 level characters appear as player characters? We never had them in D&D or AD&D 1st Ed.

[Ludovic]

I think one of the few good things 4th edition does is make 1st level more than a joke. I didn’t like to play or run 1st level characters, as in any mildly violent environment they’d likely be weaker than any peasant who managed to survive into adulthood.

So if you don’t want it to be a really deadly environment and you don’t want to alter the DM rolls a lot behind the scenes to make sure they don’t die, start the party off at 2nd level. 3rd level might be too hard to deal with because the increased spell selections might overwhelm new players, but at 2nd level not much more complex is going to happen under most character configurations, and they’ll be able to survive an average encounter without as much a risk of dying to a lucky shot.

[Alessan]

@What Exit?

1st Ed player here. When did 0 level characters appear as player characters? We never had them in D&D or AD&D 1st Ed.

I think it was part of AD&D 1.5 Edition - AKA *the Unearthed Arcana *

[Ludovic]

@Alessan

I think it was part of AD&D 1.5 Edition - AKA *the Unearthed Arcana *

THANK YOU. You’re the only other person I’ve seen to refer to the UA era of 1st edition as 1.5. I hope it catches on.

ETA: the name, not the play system. The play system was pretty broken and lacking character.

[What_Exit]

@Alessan

I think it was part of AD&D 1.5 Edition - AKA *the Unearthed Arcana *

Interesting, I never met a ref that took all of that book into their game and no one ever used the 0 level PCs. Did you actually play in a game where someone did that? I keep thinking that most players find 1st and 2nd are the most boring levels and that they are the most dangerous.

[wolfman]

What’s the smallest playable group that you can run an adventure with and still have all of the fun? Are there any great examples of modules that account for small groups, say even as small as one DM and one player?

It does get a little wierd if that is the whole campaign as one player. However 1 on 1 sessions are great. I have an absolute requirement before any campaign that each player run through a decent (4ish hour) run with at most 2 people but prefferably one. Having a chance to be the entire focus allows the player to really get a sence of the character, rather than being overshadowed as a one-dimensional role in a group. It makes things a lot more fun when you get everybody together.