EEOC complaint against Amazon for disparate treatment of women drivers

In My Humble Opinion
61

If they paid that fast food owner, either a flat fee or even 25¢ or 50¢ per use then that fast food owner would be happy, at the very least, they’re not wasting their own money supporting another business & possibly even making something.
It’s a little bit more of a grey area at a public bathroom, like in a park, but even though they are open to the public, you frequently need a permit for group or commercial activity, park bathrooms in northern climates are frequently closed in the winter because they are not heated enough to prevent pipes from freezing. My local park has nice bathrooms with electricity & running water in the summer but only Porta-Johns in the winter.

Why should Amazon’s business model not be supporting their own costs; that gives them an unfair advantage over B&M stores or even other online competitors who use a delivery service with more responsible policies.

62

I don’t need a permit or be part of a group to take a leak at the park. I can’t imagine that a McDonald’s owner would care about two or three delivery drivers a day using their restrooms and the hassle of collecting fifty cents each time is not worth it. I used to travel for work and would sometimes need to use a restroom. I’d generally buy something but not always except for the occasional time when there was a sign explicitly forbidding it.

63

It depends where you are, if you’re at the far end of a rural route, then no, it’s not worth the hassle due to minimal traffic. I bet some are getting far more than others, & collectively, McDonald’s franchises are supporting probably thousands if not tens of thousands of Amazon bio breaks per day.

64

Collectively is irrelevant. There are over 13,000 McDonald’s and they aren’t all stopping at McDonald’s. They are also stopping at the several hundred thousand other restaurants and gas stations and coffee shops. Not to mention they are buying a drink or a snack a significant amount of times. This is a non issue.

65

Because there’s a good chance the driver will buy something - place a phone app order, grab it on the way out of the bathroom.

66

I don’t think the problem is access to bathrooms, it’s setting performance expectations that aren’t compatible with using the bathrooms that exist.

A brief web search suggests that Amazon DSPs (the companies that actually do the deliveries) are expected to have drivers deliver 250 packages in a 10 hour shift. With two 15 minute breaks, and a 30 minute lunch, that means 27 packages per hour while working, so averaging a package every 2 minutes is reasonable rounding of the expectation.

That 2 minute delivery includes scanning the package, putting it in place, and taking a picture of it. The 10 hour shift probably also includes loading the truck, doing a pre-trip safety inspection, and driving from the distribution center to the delivery area putting the actual average time per package below 2 minutes.

DSPs that don’t meet expectations are in a world of trouble. Their only “client” is Amazon, and if Amazon doesn’t want to use them then they can’t start using the trucks they lease to start delivering for Walmart. So the DSPs are going to put a large amount of pressure on the drivers to make deliveries correctly and on time.

67

And driving from the location of delivery number 6 to delivery number 7. etc.

68

Insane. It seems like every convenience we have these days comes at the cost of someone else.

69

They typically stop in front of my house and deliver to three to five places near one another so there isn’t transit between all deliveries in suburbia but that’s a nitpick.

70

No, that is a personal anecdote that is a mere glitch in the system. It doesn’t factor in unless you follow a few trucks from beginning to end to see if what you personally see is actually common place.

71

Agreed they can save some driving and for sure the routing algorithm tries to have each truck leave the depot, go to one confined area, empty the truck, then return for a reload if time permits and volume requires.

The situation in an urban setting is different but still full of lost time …

They show up at my highrise with about 10 3’x3’x4’ tubs of packages. Maybe 100-200 packages. Then they load an elevator with as many tubs as fit, ride the elevator to the top, then drag it all out of the elevator into the foyer on that floor, then dash around that floor dropping packages at apartment doors. It takes 3 minutes to walk the full length of the hallway and 3 minutes coming back the other way.

Then they call the elevator, wait for it to arrive, put all the tubs back in, go down 1 floor, pull it all out, and do it again. Lather rinse repeat for 10 residential floors.

They might be here an hour or 90 minutes. No driving at all during that time, but they sure as hell still have to hustle to average 2 minutes per. At least they are indoors in the HVAC and can use the bathrooms in the lobby. No loose dogs or wildlife either.

The only thing that saves them are the people who get 4 or 5 packages at once.

But we also get 4 or 5 Amazon trucks per day. Some large, others small. So it may be 3 separate drivers on 3 separate trips to deliver the 5 boxes to apartment 1234.


It’s wanting convenience to be nearly free that turns workers into whipped slaves driven by e-slavedrivers.

If instead we happily paid $15 per small package for delivery, and $50 each for anything needing a hand truck, then the drivers could have a reasonable workload and pace of work.

Unless the corporate overlords simply pocketed the extra package fees for themselves.

It is only when there are universal fully-enforced regulations about adequate labor treatment, and all consumers are willing to boycott non-cooperative businesses that the workers will once again have a voice. Right now it’s fatcats and penny-pinching consumers squeezing the workers. They don’t recognize that the workers they are squeezing are themselves.

Raging rugged individualism FTW again. Bring back unions, “one for all and all for one”, etc., and we’d live in a very different society.

72

While that makes sense, part of being a delivery driver is having to use bathrooms at stores and restaurants. I get a few delivery drivers and sales people (that are delivering or selling to us) using our bathroom on any given day.

As I’m reading through this, the solution I’m seeing is to reduce the number of stops they have, but allow them the same amount of time. So, for example, if they’re expected to make 200 stops, during their shift, change that to 190. That way, in addition to whatever breaks they’re allowed, this would give them time to sneak in a few extra bathroom breaks and still get everything delivered on time.

73

Give me a fucking break. That’s obviously how it works in a suburban neighborhood full of tract homes. My corner operating like that for decades isn’t a special case.

74

Sorry, but you don’t get your “fucking break”. You made a convenient assumption based on a personal experience in a localized area.

75

Then you should refute it with something more than nuh uh.

76

How do you imagine things work in dense suburban neighborhoods? This is beyond idiotic.

77

That’s certainly how it works (delivering to several homes at the same time) on my block and also on the block where I work. Same as the UPS drivers. I’m in a city neighborhood, so it’s relatively dense.

78

And, on top of just looking out your window and seeing them dart between your house and a few of the neighbors, you can also pick it up on the tracking. I often see, for example “8 more stops” and then after the van not moving for 5 or 10 minutes, it’ll change to “3 more stops”.

79

Also the two other places I lived and the small places I worked. And every delivery truck I have ever seen at a friend’s house and driving around.

The large places I worked are a different story because they’d get a few full trucks a day just for them.

80

Like I’ve said, I know a couple of people who work in the fulfillment centers - 1 fills packages and the other loads vans/trucks. I forget the specific number of packages the packer is supposed to fill in an hour - I’m pretty sure it is over 500 - with the highest slightly performers moving over 800. Sounds absolutely insane to me. But as I’ve also said, both of these women (who have few specific marketable skills) think their jobs are pretty good jobs, and that Amazon is a fine employer.

And I’ve encountered several individuals who expressed difficulty with respect to the distance to and limited access to bathrooms in the fulfillment centers.

I do not think it reflects well on America that that is what passes for “good employment” for many in today’s economy.