Inspired by the GQ thread on Canada immigration, I’m wondering what would happen if the USA and Canada scrapped all immigration and work permit controls between the two countries.
Would there be a mass movement of people north? Or south? Or both? Or not much change at all?
Until 9/11, the border was open. There were many places where it was possible to cross the border without so much as speaking to an official.
The OP is asking about immigration policy, not border security. Immigration to and from Canada was not open on 9/10/01 and has not been since sometime in the early 20th century, when immigration laws as a whole were quite relaxed.
I could see a lot of people frustrated with the political system in the US moving north. But I’m sure a lot of people looking for more economic opportunities would come here. No idea what the net effect would be.
You’re kidding, right? How many people in the US move from one state to another out of frustration with that state’s “political system”?
People generally move for economic reasons, but also looking for a better quality of life. If those things align in the Great North, then people will move north. If they align in the more southern country, then people will move south. Canada has a huge disadvantage in that it is just so damn cold. I imagine we’d get a lot of Canadian retirees moving south.
The economies and living standards of the two countries are similar enough that you’re probably not going to see much large scale migration either way.
Everyone who got an on going medical condition would move to Canada, I should think. Wouldn’t you? Even if you had to pay for Canadian health care insurance, you’d still save a ton, I think.
Everyone? Most Americans have quite good medical insurance, even if many don’t. Also, not all “ongoing medical conditions” are a death sentence. Are you suggesting, for instance, that everyone with asthma 0r diabetes would move to Canada? Every last person with those conditions?
That’s what I was thinking. Even as it stands, does either country really restrict immigration to the point that it’s hard to move from one side to the other? ISTM that if someone wants to move, they can, without too much hassle.
Also, I know exactly one person who uprooted his family and moved to Canada to get get a job within his field since he couldn’t get one in the states. And, I don’t know any Canadians. Being in one of the first large cities in a border state, if people were heading South in droves, you’d think I’d run across more.
My guess is that if you opened the border and made crossing it (living there, getting a job there, etc) really no different than crossing a state line, you’d see people moving in both directions. Some because it’s novel, some because of opportunities that simply weren’t (as easily) available before, some out of necessity, but overall, I doubt either population would change by all that much.
It’s not like if you opened up the US/Mexico border in the way the OP suggests
They’re heading south, not just next door. 
But yeah, there is probably more economic difference between the various US states and also within the various Canadian provinces than there is between the average of those two countries. One would expect there to be less movement between countries than between states/provinces.
I know you were joking, but just to be clear, if someone in Canada lived near the Canada/Wisconsin border and was looking at jobs in the US, it’s likely they’d focus on Madison*, Milwaukee* and Chicago*. It’s a quick drive and easy to make it home for a weekend and holidays without having to fly. Hence the reason I said that if people were coming down here in droves, you’d think I’d be bumping into them.
*For major cities, of course there’s tons of smaller cities as well.
I’m also not so sure that it’s easy for your average person to immigrate in either direction.
But Canadians are sneaky. You have to give them the “about how much does a house boat cost” test! Anecdotes are, of course, not good sources of data. I live in CA and know lots of Canadians.
I know you’re joking, but in point of fact my mother said that when she first came over illegally (CAN > US), that was the most difficult thing to “correct” so she wouldn’t sound so Canadian.
I was only half joking. It is, in fact, very difficult for most Americans to pick up on whether someone is Canadian or not. It’s not like Brits or Aussies where it’s obvious straight away.
No, because I have good insurance.
Plus, if I had an ongoing medical condition I wouldn’t want to break my continuity of care.
Plus, the Affordable Care Act gives me reasonable options should I lose my job. US liberals complain that it isn’t the universal care plan of their dreams, but it gets us most of the way there, at least in the states which fully cooperate.
Plus, I have family ties to my area.
The one reason that I would consider moving to Canada a medical plus, if all other was the same, is that there is a lower intensity of care. Canada has less of what I see as over-testing and over-treatment, with more emphasis on primary care. I like that. However, some people like the specialist-oriented, testing-heavy US model. So, on balance, I think health care would be, in immigration/emigration terms, a wash.
Sounds right.
Massachusetts and Louisiana have a lot more bigger difference in standard of living than the US and Canada, but Massachusetts and Louisiana have similar population growth rates.
There’s one territorial area of the US that has been seeing substantial population loss. That’s Puerto Rico, which has little more than half the per capita income of what is, most years, the poorest US state, Mississippi. That’s the kind of differential needed to drive migration. And, between the US and Canada, the differential is not there.
I’m all for tearing down the barriers, on our side, between the US and Canada. Canada can, of course, do as it wants.
There are far more American liberals wanting to move north than Canadian conservatives wanting to move south, I’d think. So I think there would be a big exodus of Americans moving north to Canada, perhaps in the millions.
That being said, would an influx of millions of people crash that vaunted health care system?
No, because they too would have to pay six bucks for a Quarter Pounder.™
The Canadian problem with Americans coming north for health care would worsen considerably, I’d expect.
Funny thing is, when I lived in Canada, people would tell me how they went to New York or Michigan for some of their medical treatments. You know: no waiting lists or rationing.
Aside from that, Ontario == Michigan. My family (on my maternal grandfather’s side) is pretty much split 50%-50% across Lake Huron and the St. Clair River. I grew up with homo milk and Global TV. I’m a lot more comfortable in Oakville or Mississauga than in San Diego. Property in the GTA is overpriced compared to Michigan, but cheap compared to San Francisco.
tl;dr: people see a border and think it’s a significant thing, but quite honestly we’re brothers (and sisters) and there’s not really a whole lot of difference between us.
Do you have a cite for how many Americans do this and that it’s a problem? Are we talking about a few hundred Americans, a few thousand…10’s of thousands? Millions?