This is slightly off-topic, but, I hope, of interest…
One place I HAVE heard “tr–” pronounced just that way is in the Spanish of Costa Rica. Many Costa Rican Spanish speakers pronounce the “r” just as in English (this surprised me when I first heard it). But from what I’ve heard and recall, they keep the “t” as a “t” before the “r”, i.e., in tractor (which is also a Spanish word.) Try it – this requires you to push out your lips, almost as if you were to pronounce the “oo” sound.
In the Spanish I learned as a kid (which I take it is a standard Mexican dialect of some kind) the t sound is pronounced with no aspiration and with the tongue farther forward than in the English t. (Almost, but not quite, into ‘th’ territory.) If it’s the same in Costa Rican spanish, then “tractor” with a (spanish) t seems pretty natural.
Thanks – well put! To be fair to Biffy, I suppose that, at some “grain” of phonetic transcription which is useful for many purposes, writing the sound in question as an “l” (with no schwa before it) would be acceptable, with the voicing you and I are talking about just assumed as coming along with the territory.
Great observation! I think that’s exactly it. The further-forward pronunciation of the Spanish “t” allows it to avoid palatization when followed by an “r”. And Costa Rica is the only place I know of (perhaps there are others) where this can be tested, because the Spanish “r” as pronounced everywhere else is a tap, flap, or trill, none of which encourages palatization of a preceding “t” (heck, it seems to me it precludes palatization).
Well, that’s why the /l/ (and nasals such as /n/) are often referred to as “syllabic consonants”:
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]
Many dialects of English may use syllabic consonants in words such as even [ˈiːvn̩], awful [ˈɔːfɫ̩] and rhythm [ˈɹɪðm̩], which are usually regarded as realizations of underlying sequences of schwa plus consonant (/ˈiːvən/ etc).
[/quote]
Neat, thanks.
Hi Mr. Polerius. You were already linked to an audible dictionary, but I am mildly gobsmacked by the question. If you make a distinction between sense and cents, how can pronouncing truck with a TR be a mystery?
Do the chruck people also say Star Chrek and Chruble and Chreble? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
No problem. It’s life on a message board.
While apparently it’s very common to pronounce “cents” and “sense” the same, and less common (but still quite common) to pronounce “truck” as “chruck”, it’s not inconceivable that someone would do the latter but not the former.
Speaking for myself – “Star Chrek” – Pretty much all the time. “Chreble” (for “treble”) – Most of the time, but not always. “Chruble” (for “trouble”) – Hmmm…I think maybe about 55% of the time.
Chrue dat! 
I wasn’t sure what you meant before, but get what you mean now. I’m not so sure that there’s a need to insert the “uh” between the “t” and the “l” in “beetle”. ( I can say "beetlee " just like I can say “idlee”)) I suspect this is an example of a change in either spelling or pronunciation over time.
That was supposed to be an example of someone not saying “chruck”?!
I ask because the the linked-to entry contains a recording of someone quite manifestingly pronouncing the initial sound as “ch” and not “t”.
Yes.
I’ve been having some problems with my left ear for the past few days, and I’m using the built in speakers in my iMac, but I hear Truck with a TR. Maybe a poll is in order.
And JKellyMap, my surprise was not that Polerius said chruck, but that he should have difficulty imagining how to pronounce it with a tr sound.
See Guizot’s post #60…There definitely is an “uh” in there (even though your mouth is pretty much already in position for the “l”), but it’s only sometimes included in phonetic transcriptions, because it’s such a predictable part of its ‘environment’.
So, it was never pronounced without the “uh” (physical impossibility).
Ah, got it. Thanks.
I say chruck. Well, I’ll be.
Poll Here. It covers who says what and how they hear the audible dictionary’s version.
There may be an imperceptible (at least to me ) “uh” in “idlee” or “badly” but it’s definitely not the same as the very obvious vowel ( I’ve heard it as “uh” , “ih” or “eh”) in “beetle”'.
Agreed. That wasn’t what I understood you to mean when you wrote, “I’m not so sure that there’s a need to insert the “uh” between the “t” and the “l” in “beetle”.”
What I meant (sorry I wasn’t clear) is that because it’s such an obvious sound, I don’t think it’s an example of needing to insert an “uh” as with “idli” and “badly” but rather an example of a word that always had the pronounced “uh” but probably used to be spelled differently . I checked and it is - the word comes from the Middle English “betylle” and the Old English “bitela”.
There are some American accents in which this occurs, most notably Appalachian accents. Very often this kind of accent Also pronounces “milk” as “melk.”
I’m from DFW, I say “seeng” and “milk.”
I really hope I can find a clip or something of someone unquesitonably saying “sing” with a short i. I’ve never been able to identify an instance of it… but maybe I’m just not hearing it accurately.
Is there some popular song that has a long “siiiiiiing” in it? If so, maybe if I could listen to clips of people singing that song…