I have some questions. I’d like Bush supporters to offer answers, if you would be so kind.
Why were no Bush supporters, here or in the country at large, or among pundits…concerned at all about the demonsrated problems with the voting machines? Why was it only Kerry supporters?
Why is it that no one has yet reported voting for Kerry on a machine and having the machine ask for confirmation of their Bush vote, yet we have dozens if not hundreds of reports for the reverse? And why is this being accepted?
Why are the most Outrageous disparities between the exit polls and the final tallys in swing states with voting machines, and why do they show a complete switch from Kerry to Bush, but never the other way?
If it can be clearly shown that the machines and the votes were rigged to give the election to Bush, will this bother you at all?
And here’s one for the Kerry contingent:
Why are you buying into the idea that Bush won “fair and square” when all these problems exist?
First, I think you meant item 2 to say the opposite of what it says.
Second, I am on the fence regarding this issue. One thing making me think there wasn’t fraud involved is that graphics like the one you link to are almost the best evidence I have seen, yet they do not clearly explain their sources or their rationale for choosing to show results for some states and not others.
Nevertheless, there is some funky stuff going on w/ voter turnout numbs vs. total votes counted in some Florida voting places, and some real concerns involving the business and political connections of those who run the companies which designed the machines in question, which makes me suspect there is something fishy going on.
If I may, this isn’t healthy. You guys need to accept the results; concocting these outlandish stories isn’t going to change anything, and in the long run just keeps you in a state of childish denial.
See, that is what I am talking about. One non-result-changing glitch was found. And yet you want me to freak over it? Pffft. I swear, it’s like watching kids in denial over their cancelled trip to Disneyland.
It’s like a lot of concerned citizens fearing what the next 4+ years will bring for our country.
As an aside, one non-result changing glitch that was found may point to other glitches that may or may not be result changing. That is why it is a big deal. Obviously must have slipped your mind.
In Carteret County, North Carolina, 4530 votes were lost. Not miscounted and later corrected. Not misplaced and found. Lost forever and ever because of a screwup over the version of the machine in use and its memory requirements. There’s not fixing it – those 4530 people are just disenfranchised this time. Carteret County, ex those votes, went 69-30 for the President. Do you suppose that the loss of those votes lost tended to favor or disfavor Bush?
The fact is that there just doesn’t exist any evidence of a systematic plot anywhere in the nation which favors one candidate or another.
Cite. And who are “they”, seeing as this has been reported all over the place.
why, so they can do it again?
This isn’t about reversing these results, its about making sure that the process itself is transparant and tamper proof. It isn’t currently. It’s been asked before and I’ll ask again: why wouldn’t you want that?
Youre a pretty smart, pragmatic guy, Sam, not one I’d accuse of wearing a tinfoil hat.
Do you not see a huge difference between an organized conspiracy of hundreds of people all over the country, as well as the news networks themselves, (biased exit polls) vs. some (almost) invisible computer tweaking done on unauditable machines by at most a handful of people, maybe just one or two? The former actually seems more likely to you than the latter? Really? Honestly? No shit?
Your delusions of vote-fraud have not been reported all over the place, because they did not occur! All we have actual proof of are some minor glitches here and there, non of which ultimately made an iota of difference. Trying to magically expand those via the holypoopihatebush.org route doesn’t constitute proof. Not by a long shot.
No, because the reality of the situation is that GW Bush won the elections by a 34 vote margin in the electoral college, and a 3.5 million margin in the popular vote.
Several things speak against such a conspiracy theory. First, of course, is the fact that its a conspiracy. Conspiracy leaks. This conspiracy would involve breathtaking cynicism amongst all the particpants. Some of our political opponents are, in truth, cynics, perfectly willing to subvert our democracy to gain their ends. But not all, not even a majority. And it would only take one attack of conscience to blow the whole plot right out of the water, to disastrous effect: the honest conservatives would never accept such behavior, the conspirators would have a permanent case of political leprosy.
Second, you would have to bugger not just one complex system, but many, and in many places at the same instant. Evil geniuses exist only in fantasy, in real life, evil men are usually stupid and venal. Thank the Goddess!
I nonetheless think that our voting system is a scandal and a shame, that a nation as rich and smart as ours cannot deal with such a pedestrian problem. But now that the Forces of Darkness see that a clean and abundant turnout can work to their advantage…I suspect a born-again committment to full voter participation.
my own HO is if this election was rigged, it was done by the dems, as Kerry was never ment to win to provide a good shot of a Hillary dynasty.
Actually I suspect that something big is happening, the former ‘power structure’ that controled the media is now colapsing as alternative media and the people themselves are pointing out that the conventonal media is not and can not ever be fair and objective, and in fact is left slanted.
And we should just assume those votes are valid why? At last count, there were over 1,000 reports of problems of varying degrees of severity. Is it your contention that we should just shrug, say oh well, and ignore it? Even if investigation proves problems that can and should be solved before the next election? And if so…why?
Votes that may have been stolen. If they were, I want to know because I want to prevent any further theft by anyone, ever. I’ve always believed that the United States has the most trustworthy system anywhere. That’s no longer true. That’s not ok with me. Why is it with you? jsut because you got what you wanted? Don’t you have an ounce of pride in your country’s intergrity and honor? Are you willing to have it any slimy way you can?