Electronics Gurus: Is HDTV Here To Stay?

Factual Questions
1

I am in the market for purchasing a new TV set. I have read many reviews of which most contradict themselves. So what better place to go than the SDMB to seek out the truth? My questions about HDTV are as follows:

Many people have commented on the FCC or some other regulatory agency changing the standards on which HDTV is broadcasted in essence antiquating every set sold to date. Is this information correct or will older HDTV compatibble sets be able to convert the new signal with existing hardware or any new converter type boxes?

My second question deals with TV size and type. Does anyone know the optimal size of the set to achieve maximum resolution from an HDTV signal? Additionally, there are four viable types to choose from. Of the four screens, the CRT, rear projection, plasma, or LCD (I saw a beautiful Sony make at Circuit City) provides the clearest most reliable picture? I hear that plasma does not offer the quality while LCD bulbs tend to burn out.

Lastly, are there any brands that have shown superiority in terms of quality, performance, and durability when comparing along the lines? For arguments sake, lets say price is not a factor.

2

Yes, HDTV is here to stay. But you might be wise to hold off on buying an HDTV set. They are only going to get cheaper, and right now very few programs take advantage of HDTV, if you are even in a market that gets it at all.

Right now, I don’t believe plasma or LCD screens are worth what they cost. CRT sets are limited by the size of the glass, but from what I’ve seen produce the best picture. Of course, for sheer size, you have to go rear-projection. They’ve come a long way in terms of viewability.

But seriously–unless you HAVE to have HDTV right now, and unless you live in a market where HDTV signals are plentiful, don’t buy an HDTV set. This technology is still in the “early adopter” phase.

I will say this though–if you’ve got cash to burn, go for it. The HDTV demo feeds I’ve seen are nothing short of amazing. The technology is incredible, and is the wave of the future. You just have to consider (1) cost and (2) availability of HDTV signals to you.

3

At CC all the HDTV sets I looked at require a Set Top box to get
hdtv shows. Another $550 said the salesperson…grrrrrr. Sure are some nice sets though.
52" for $2000.00…

4

I have heard so many conflicting stories about HDTV that I cannot justify buying one. I’ve seen them with the standard aspect ratio, instead of the widescreen, or they come without tuners, or they’re not “true” HDTV, whatever that means… I’m afraid that if I buy one, it won’t have all the features that I expected.

This is without a doubt one of the most confusing technology rollouts I have ever experienced.

5

You can get a few HDTV channels with DirecTV; they just require an HD-ready set, no set-top box necessary (other than the Hi-Def DirecTV decoder). Plus, if you have a DVD player with component out, you’ll see a big improvement (progressive component output is even better, although not strictly necessary, since I believe all HDTVs on the market will do line doubling on interlaced inputs).

The optimal size of a set is determined by how far you plan on sitting from it. According to this page, the optimal viewing distance for HDTV in the US is 2.5 times the picture height (NOT the diagonal measurement, so you’ll need to do a little trigonometry, or get out the tape measure).

BTW, you (Soltep), left out one display type - front projection. The most realistic (i.e. most like a movie theater) picture can be gotten using this type of display. However, it requires a large room that can be darkened for viewing, and also a bit more technical expertise to set up.

6

One thing about HDTV sets I’ve noticed is that they have a really crappy pixellated look to them when showing non-hdtv shows, because of the adjustment re: aspect ratio, I think.

I’ve seen this in stores, and my friend has a good HDTV with digital cable, but IMHO the picture is not as nice on the eyes as his older big-screen trinitron, for example.

Maybe they’re just idiots and don’t have the sets set-up right. Has anyone else noticed this about HDTV?

7

Thanks for the replies. I am actually doing research for a relative who is compulsive and needs to buy a set. All your information has been helpful.

RunningiwthScissors, I left out front projection because of its price and difficulty of setup. Trust me, if i could I would purchase a $50,000 Vidikron 1 to only never leave my house again! :slight_smile:

8

I recently bought a Panasonic CT-36HX41 HDTV. While I’m not an expert on this stuff I did a ton of research leading up to my purchase so I hope I can shed some light here. (NOTE: I would have bought the Sony 36XBR450 but it was too big to fit into my entertainment center…I was already spending too much on the tv to add more to it).

First off HDTV is here to stay. Also, the HDTV standards will not be changing. The FCC stipulated 16 different HDTV formats so it is hard to see why they’d want to add to that. That said, most HDTVs only support 3 (really two) of the formats (1080i, 480p, 480i). 1080i is a HDTV resolution (the ‘i’ stand for interlaced*). 480i is what your current standard tv displays today and HDTVs support it for backwards compatibility. 480p is an enhanced version of standard display and is what you are likely getting when it is not a “true” HDTV if it can’t do the 1080i resolution (the ‘p’ stands for progressive scan**).

Some of the confusion about whether HDTV is here to stay or not comes from the broadcasting industry. You may remember a few years back the big hullaballoo over the government giving away huge portions of the broadcast spectrum for free to broadcasters. It was felt the government could have pulled in billions if they had auctioned the bandwidth instead. I originally thought it was crazy to give it away but it turned out to work in our favor afterall. An full-blown HDTV signal takes 8x the bandwidth (essentially 8 ‘regular’ TV channels) to broadcast. The broadcasters didn’t see how they’d make any money off this since they likely wouldn’t be able to charge more for a commercial on HDTV than they do for a commercial on regular TV. Instead the broadcasters figured they’d make a helluva lot mroe money just creating 8 new TV channels and sell 8x the advertising. The FCC, however, had different notions and was more than a little pissed off. They sat the TV executives down and mandated that they all offer HDTV programming by 2006 (or 2007…I forget). Since the programmers had been given the extra broadcast spectrum the government felt it had a right to demand how it was used. Unfortunately that 2006 date seems more and mroe likely to slip as smaller markets say they can’t afford to buy the new equipment to see it done. I’m not sure how the government is responding to that but I think it is willing to give the broadcasters some leeway here. Large markets currently have some HDTV broadcasts today (such as Chicago).

As for will your HDTV be capable of differing broadcast standards in the future the answer is yes and no. Most HDTVs are sold without their own tuner so you have to go out and buy one. However, a few do have their own internal tuners. Whatever the case should a new standard become popular you can always just buy a new tuner ($500-1000 today but that price will likely drop as they become more common) to upgrade your TV (even if it has its own tuner).

So, what looks better? An HDTV or a regular TV? The answer isn’t as cut-and-dried as you might think. In its full glory an HDTV blows the doors off a regular TV. However, HDTVs don’t do so well with standard broadcasts…at least not as nicely as a good regular TV does. Since the HDTV has more than twice the lines of resolution of regular TVs the HDTV uses a line-doubler to fill in the information the broadcast signal lacks. Ever enlarge an image on your computer screen and it starts looking blocky? Same thing here. However, some broadcasts seem to be worse than others. Live video (local news and sporting events for instance) look the worst. Movies that were originally shot on film and shows with higher production values (such that they use better equipment) don’t look too bad. Your best look for an HDTV, at least today, will come from a DVD player or an actual HDTV broadcast. Nicer DVD players have their own internal line-doublers geared especially for DVDs that does a better job than the HDTVs line-doubler (the TV’s doubler has to be more generice to accomodate differing situations…the DVD knows only DVDs so does a better job being a specialist). If you really want an improvement you can buy a progressive scan DVD player that will output a 480p signal to your HDTV…now you’re living large (at least till they come out with 1080 DVDs if they ever do)!

Next up we have the aspect ratio of the set you want to buy. Most TVs come in the standard 4:3 aspect ratio (for every 4 inches you go horizontally you go 3 inches up). HDTV sets come in either the 4:3 aspect or 16:9. The 16:9 sets sure look cool but it is worth thinking about which one you choose. There’s no better or worse here…just an eyes open consideration so you know what you’re getting into. I’m sure you’ve seen a movie on TV or video in letterbox format where you get black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. It annoys most people I know even though they are seeing the picture the way it was meant to be seen. The 16:9 HDTVs are closer to rectangular and will have either no black bars or smaller black bars during letterboxing.

“Smaller black bars on the 16:9 set?” you say. Yup…not all movies are shot in the same aspect ratio. Some are in a ratio of 1.85:1 and others are in 2.35:1. The 1.85:1 movies will completely fill a 16:9 screen with no black bars. The 2.35:1 movie will still display black bars on a 16:9 set although they’ll be smaller than the same bars on a 4:3 set. Now here’s the rub…I was all gung-ho to get a 16:9 set but recall that I could only fit a certain size set into my entertainment center. Either a 34" 16:9 set would fit or a 36" 4:3 set. A quick bit of geometry showed me that the letterboxed screen on a 36" 4:3 set was barely smaller than the whole picture on a 34" 16:9 set. Additionally, programs in 4:3 aspects (as 99% of all programs are today) will leave black or grey bars down the right and left side of a 16:9 set.

“Did he say bars down the side of a 16:9 set?” Yup…you’ll get a square picture in the center of a 16:9 set showing a 4:3 picture. If most of the TV you watch is in 4:3 and you leave the TV set this way it is possible to unevenly wear the picture tube so colors look different in the center than the edges. The 16:9 sets have three things it can do about this. It can leave it as it is. It can expand the picture or it can zoom in on the picture. If the TV expands the picture resolution goes down fairly noticeably and doesn’t look to good. If it zooms the picture the TV essentially lops off a bit of the top and bottom of the picture and fills the screen. On the up-side this doesn’t affect resolution. On the down-side you are missing part of the picture. You especially notice this during sporting events where the score (usually in the upper corner of the screen) partly disappears or, depending on how a scene was framed, sometimes the tops of people’s heads get cut off. You may now notice some TV shows (such as ER) being broadcast with a little black bar at the top and bottom of the screen. This is specifically there so people with 16:9 sets can expand the picture without losing anything.

Don’t forget that today with HDTV your only options for an HDTV broadcast is digital satellite (some systems at least such as Direct TV…I don’t know about the Dish Network) and over-the-air (OTA). Most programming available today is OTA as digital satellite offers only limited programming (realize you need specific equipment to get HDTV digital satellite broadcasts). Cable offers no HDTV broadcasting yet.

Now you have to decide what type of TV you want to choose. Here’s a quick and dirty run-down of good and bad points:

CRT:
Good:

  • Bright picture (can view in high light levels)
  • Very good picture quality

Bad:

  • They max out in size at 36" (actually Sony has a 40" beast)
  • Heavy as hell (my 36" weighs well over 200 pounds…the 40" Sony I’m told comes in over 300 pounds)

Rear Projection:
Good:

  • They come in large picture sizes
  • Relatively cheap. Inch for inch your best value

Bad:

  • Pictures are usually dim (dimmer than a CRT)
  • Viewing from an angle may be problematic as the picture can fade if not viewing head-on
  • Big…they are a piece of furniture unto themselves
  • Can’t play video games on them (may damage the tubes)

LCD/Plasma:
Good:

  • Excellent picture quality (better than CRT)
  • Slim profile
  • Relatively light

Bad:

  • Hideously expensive
  • I’m told the picture fades over time of ownership although I haven’t verified this (salesman at Tweeter told me)

Front Projection:
Good:

  • Supports more than the three formats listed above for CRTs and rear projection.
  • Potentially huge picture (up to 200" or more)
  • Excellent quality (as good or better than LCD/Plasma)

Bad:

  • Hideously expensive
  • You need a big room
  • You need a dark room
  • Ugly thing hanging from your ceiling
  • Cabling and setup difficult/expensive…professional installation is recommended.

Hope that helps…
[sup]* - Interlaced is what all TVs (non-HDTVs) to date do. In 1/30 of a second the tube draws all the even lines horizontally down the picture tube. In the next 1/30 of a second all the odd lines are drawn. Due to persistence of vision you see one picture.

** - Progressive scan TV’s scan all of the lines from top to bottom in 1/30 of a second (even and odd). This results in a crisper picture especially when motion is involved. Imagine a ball being thrown in a football game. An interlaced set will scan every other line in 1/30 of a second and then scan the intervening lines in the next 1/30 of a second. However, the ball has moved in that time so the edges don’t line up giving a vaguely fuzzy or blurry appearance to the ball.[/sup]

9

Soltep, were you talking about LCD direct view or projection? I assumed the former, but now that I reread your OP I realize you probably meant the latter.

IMO, currently the best bang for the buck in the HD arena is the rear projection CRT set. I see HD sets advertised regularly at the big stores (i.e. circuit city, best buy) for $1800, and at my local warehouse club they had one for $1,600 (Panasonic). My biggest complaint is that none of them seem capable of displaying 720p natively; they all want to upconvert to 1080i. Don’t get too hung up on whether to get a widescreen or 4:3; although widescreen is the wave of the future, the 4:3 sets are perfectly capable of displaying 16:9 pictures with the same resolution as widescreen. And for a given dollar amount, you still seem to get a lot more screen real estate with a 4:3 set than a 16:9 (you’ll have to do some more math to determine the actual screen size when you’re watching HD programming).

Of course, as already discussed, you’ll need some sort of external device to watch true hi-def programming. But they still look great with a DVD.

10

The more I hear about HDTV, the more I feel America has been totally ripped-off.
It sounds like a total gyp.
Is there any way to stop this video con-job?

11

I laugh at friends who buy huge 36" standard definition televisions (SDTV) and sit 6 feet away from it.

The bigger a TV gets the bigger the lines of resolution get. All SDTVs have precisely the same number of lines of resolution regardless of size. When sitting close to a large SDTV the lines of resolution are quite visible and as a result teh picture looks crappy. The point of a bigger TV is that you can sit further away and still clearly see the action.

HDTVs are better in this regard due to their higher resolution line count. From top to bottom an HDTV has 1080 lines of resolution compared to an SDTVs 480 lines. On the same size tube that means the HDTVs lines are much smaller.

The result of all this is you can sit closer to an HDTV and not lose picture fidelity. Now you get to enjoy a big screen and good picture quality.

If you ask at a knowledgeable TV dealer they can usually tell you recommended viewing distances for various size TVs. I don’t know if they have done this for HDTVs but they do have that info for SDTVs.

12

Wow Whack-a-Mole, that is arguably the best GQ reply i have seen in the long time I have been at the SDMB. Reading through your post, I would say to myself “well, but” then you addressed the next issue.

Well done!

13

whack-a-mole, thanks for all your invaluable expertise. I think i’m going to take the rear projection widescreen route in an attempt to be prepared for future 16:9 broadcasts (but who knows, by then we could have TV embedded into our wallpaper). But if I wish to sit 10 feet away, what is the optimal size to buy? And for 13 ft? Also, do you know anything about the reputations of the various brands? Thanks.

14

Naaah. HDTV offers a tremendous improvement in picture quality over conventional TV. Regular TV quality and resolution is fine for a thirteen inch set, but it’s totally inadequate for the average screen size today (27 to 36 in). And a regular broadcast on a 50 in rear projection set is almost unwatchable. If anything, HDTV doesn’t go far enough. (IMHO, YMMV, TM)

The trouble is, we’re in the middle of a long and complicated implementation process. The government, consumers groups, manufacturers, broadcasters, movie studios - everybody has an opinion on how it should go. In ten years’ time, everyone will wonder what all the fuss was about.

15

For about three years people ask about HDTV on the board, but the answers also seem to
be the same.

Don’t forget a HDTV compatible VCR, if you want to record the HDTV programs. I don’t know how
much they are, but I think around $1500??

16

Please also remember though, not all stations will broadcast HDTV on their channels.

Virtually all current TV stations have a “SECOND” channel. They can use this for HDTV or they can use it for digital TV and broadcast up to 5 different “feeds” on that one channel.

For example. Channel 49 in Springfield IL uses it’s “SECOND” Channel to brodcast UPN and CBS (from Champaign IL) on it’s second feed.

17

There are no HDTV VCRs. There are a couple of digital VCRs, but they can only tape SDTV, or a digital bitstream. Hollywood has not yet agreed on what format an HDTV digital bitstream will take, if they allow one at all (although you can bet it will be securely encrypted; after DecSS came out, Hollywood has gotten understandably jittery about it).

Here’s a chart (scroll down to the bottom) that gives the recommend viewing distances for different size sets.

18

It is my understanding that the broadcaster cannot send encrypted data over the airwaves due to FCC regulations.

19

What about scrambled porn channels?

20

I thought that those were on cable or satellite. The non encryption stuff of my memory applies only to terrestrial broadcast TV.