Don’t forget that Elian is a national hero in Cuba. He won’t be opressed when he returns. He’ll be treated like a king from hereon out. He might even grow up to be president of Cuba some day. Maybe he’ll help build a bridge between our two countries and be the impetus for increased freedom in Cuba.
Reform Party? That one’s actually a close call 
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There is no law that says where a kid automatically ends up. That is what custody hearings are for, and Grandparents do win custody over fathers in some cases.
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Elain’s Father is clearly susceptable to coercion. But, I read today where Castro is letting the father & the family come here for a hearing. IF he does let the entire family come here, it is time to let go, & return Elian.
Where, exactly, did you get this information? Do you know the guy personally? I wouldn’t believe the media/propaganda from either side. Do you?
android209 posted 03-30-2000 05:01 PM
Where did you get that? It’s not that the US is better than every other country, it’s that the US is better than Cuba. If the US weren’t better than Cuba, why would his mother have tried to escape Cuba to begin with?
How many people have tried to immigrate to the US from Cuba? And how many have tried to immigrate to Cuba from the US?
sqweels posted 03-30-2000 05:13 PM
If Cuba is anything like the US at all, he will get a bunch of media attention when he gets home, and will promptly be forgotten. There’s no reason to think that he’s going to receive any permanent benefis from this phenomenon.
How?
(rant mode)
This case was so simple from the very beginning. If Elian’s father wanted his son back, COME F’ING GET HIM!!! Oh what, you live in a country that won’t let a father leave to go pick up his child after his mother died and left him alone in a foreign country?!? Well maybe you should consider leaving your child where there ARE such basic human rights.
(/rant mode)
Honestly, I do believe that at first the father wanted his son to stay in the U.S. and he was going to try to come over himself. The father is the one who first called the great-uncle and told him to go to the hospital and take care of his boy until such time he was able to come to Miami himself. And so far, the great-uncle has done just that.
But I think that once this case became such a media frenzy here and in Cuba, the father was too much in the center of attention for there to be any possibility of him escaping Cuba to come to the U.S. and live with his son. There was simply no way for the father to say publicly that he thought his son should remain in the United States and definitely no way to say that he himself wanted to come to the United States to live with his son.
I live 10 minutes from Miami, and have talked to many, many, Cuban exiles about the situation in Cuba BEFORE this whole Elian mess. They have ALL said that the ultimate sin in Cuba is to say anything negative about Cuba, Castro, or communism. Saying anything positive about the U.S., capitalism, or democracy will yield similar results. You just don’t do it. No matter what, you keep your mouth shut and agree with whatever Castro wants you to agree with. Because of this, I was never surprised that once the cameras were turned on Elian’s father, he said that he wanted him back. Whether it was true or not, HE DIDN’T HAVE A CHOICE.
Now that it looks as if the father will be coming, you have to wonder what took so long??? You also have to wonder if there are friends and family members of the father being threatened if the father decides to defect. It may seem implausible to us, but this type of thing goes on as a matter of fact in Cuba, ask any Cuban. Why do you think they’re so riled up?
What should be done about this whole fiasco??? I don’t have any easy answers. For me, it’s certainly not as easy to decide as some of the people yelling to either send him back now or keep him here forever regardless of the facts of the case. That’s why, from the very beginning, I said that I think Elian AND his father are entitled to their day in court. This case is neither cut nor dry, and I’m automatically suspicious of anyone who has a quick easy answer to it, particularly when there is absolutely NO room for error.
I think the real issue is the riots. Elian is just one kid, but now he is a political figurehead and the "right"s of the father dont outweigh the rights of the americans who dont want a riot
I hope the was to signify that you were kidding. The rights of the father surpass any perceived rights of “americans who dont want a riot” by far. That’s coming from someone who lives ten minutes from Miami and who’s family business and many friends are in Miami.
Any violence that might occur when this saga plays out will be by the few trouble-makers who invariably turn up when there’s a crowd to blend into, it certainly won’t be a “riot”. The Cuban community in Miami is not about to have a violent rampage or burn the place down, they’re not about that. They would be only hurting themselves.
They will surely cause massive disruptions of traffic, the airport, whatever they can do to in any way prevent the removal of the boy. I’m sure that IF the federal agents do take custody of the boy (the local police aren’t going to assist in this task in any way) they better use a helicopter because any ground based transportation will be blocked every step of the way.
And you know what? I agree with them!
Until the kid gets full consideration of all the facts and circumstances in his case, he should remain in the United States. His father is and has been welcomed and encouraged to come here by all of the parties involved. That would help sort everything out much more quickly. It’s just too bad he has to probably come with Cuban government escorts and may possibly feel threatened with harm to his remaining family in Cuba.
What some people are forgetting is that the boy stepped foot on American soil before being intercepted by the Coast Guard. The policy for such circumstances is that the refugee is given a hearing and subsequently for Cubans almost always asylum. The ONLY issue here really is his father’s rights, if he really wants his boy back so he can go back to Cuba, so be it. But I don’t think anyone can know that IS what he wants until he and his boy have a closed-door (hopefully) immigration/family court hearing. Only then will we know everything that’s necessary to know before making a permanant decision.
What a load of emotional hogwash.
The boy was picked up at sea, he has no right to be here, he will not be in danger (more than any other Cuban) when he is returned to his home.
He has remained here too long already; tensions have increased, and the Cuban Ex-Pats have just been able to dig in deeper.
I’ve heard the stories: Castro is a bad man, Cuba is a bad place, etc. None of this changes the fact that the boy has no right to be here.
Send the boy back.
Another issue here is the U.S.'s ability to get our own children back from other countries if the decision is made that Elian stays. There are hundreds of American kids who have been taken overseas (mostly by a parent when there has been a divorce situation). We can’t ignore international law when the case involves Cuba, then turn around and expect other countries to uphold it.
You folks remember the De Boer case, a domestic adoption case, where the father contested the adoption three weeks after the baby’s birth?
It was a huge mess. The biological father never gave consent for the adoption. IIRC, he didn’t know the mother was even pregnant until after the fact.
Anyway, he contested the whole thing. The baby, on the other hand, was left with the prospective adoptive parents (the adoption was never finalized). Not placed in neutral foster territory, or returned immediately to the biological father, who had never been proven unfit.
The girl was here, in Michigan, for almost three years, being held hostage by people who were not her parents, but refused to let her go back to her biological parents in Iowa. She eventually went back to her biological parents, and is doing well, except that the biological parents are divorcing now (but so are the De Boers).
This was a domestic adoption case. But I see parallels to Elian’s case. Elian is six. Not old enough to take care of himself. Maybe old enough to express an opinion as to where he wants to live. Definitely young enough to be held hostage and brainwashed.
What I’d like to know is who started the publicity. This could have been handled quietly, either by sending the boy right back, or quietly keeping him here. Who decided it was a HUGE deal?
And we need to abide by international law. If the law says the boy goes back, he goes back. End of story. I am fully aware that the US may provide more opportunity than Cuba. But what has that got to do with anything? I simply cannot imagine having my happy, healthy, unharmed child taken from me, moved to another country, and then having to fight to get him back because the opportunity is better in the other country. That’s BS.
This is my new sig. Thank Wally. It was his idea.
“I made my husband join a bridge club. He jumps next Tuesday.”
Since the beginning, the Miami family has said that if the father comes to pick the boy up, they will give Elian to him.
Now that that’s a real possibility, they are saying “Sorry! Just kidding! He can see the boy, but can’t have custody!”
Now the Attorney is claiming there is evidence that the boy’s father had been “verbally and physically abusive” and should only be allowed to see his son “under appropriately psychologically sound safeguards.”
Funny how this evidence only now comes out. What a remarkable coincidence.
It doesn’t matter how bold you make it or how many times you repeat it, it’s certainly not true.
The boy does have the right to be here. He was picked up by a fisherman when he was found floating at sea on an inner-tube. He was brought to shore by that fisherman, and that gives him the right to be considered for asylum. Had the Coast Guard picked him up at sea, it would have been a different story. I’m not saying that I agree with this policy, but that IS the policy. We should abide by it until such time as we change it.
As I said before, what this case really hinges on is the father’s wishes. Nobody can be certain of those wishes until his father comes here to straighten things out and assure the authorities that he isn’t being forced to say anything by anyone.
Well, the relatives are now saying they won’t give the boy to the father if he comes here.
I’m not sure I understand why, though. They’re saying that the father can come & visit, but no Cuban officials will be allowed inside their home.
I’m not really up on the law. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.
This is my new sig. Thank Wally. It was his idea.
“I made my husband join a bridge club. He jumps next Tuesday.”
What we all seem to forget is that the issue is not just about one child, and American-Cuban relations… The outcome of this case will set a precedent - and in very emotional debates like this one, we fail to see the impact of our decisions on future events.
What if the US keeps Elian. Three years down the road, a female American child is taken by her father to, say, Iraq, the father’s homeland. There, she stays with other family members she had never met before. Say the father gets killed in a freak accident a day after they arrive. The parent in the united states wants the child back. The mother did not give permission for her daughter to be taken by the father. The people of Iraq and the family believe that the child has a better, more morally sound future in Iraq. They refuse to turn the child over to the mother / US because they honestly believe that the child is better off in Iraq with her relatives.
Jesus on a cracker, the US would freakin’ go to WAR over this!!!
What if this was YOUR child? You might say, “The US is not that bad! My child and I are ok!” and the Iraq crowd shouts back, “No way! There’s more chance of the child getting shot by mad gunmen in schools, or be exposed to immoral violence on TV, and a lack of values! If you were a good mother, you’d not ask for your child back!”
Frankly, all of us here who have kids, we’d rather have our children with us that elsewhere, and survive together.
If the father defects, fine, the father defects. But in the meantime, let’s respect the bond between parent and child. Or else, it will probably come back and bite us ALL in the ass in the future, when someone pulls our own laws and jurisprudence on us.
:::getting off the soapbox::::
Sorry about the incoherence, if it’s there, I’m still really hungover. 
E.
(never, ever have your Ukranian friends over for dinner unless you’ve had food before, cuz the Vodka will hit your stomach like a ton-o-bricks…)
Pinging off at a tangent, would it have made any difference if the boys father had drowned and his mother was waiting in Cuba for his return?
Regarding the theoretical Iraq scenario above:
The issue with Elian is that we don’t know for sure what his father’s wishes are. Particularly after Elian’s father originally said that he wanted his son to stay in the U.S. and then he suddenly changed his tune.
Theoretically speaking, Iraq better not hold onto a kid if the surviving parent goes to Iraq under their own free will and demands the return of their child.
What a lot of people aren’t realizing here is that the natural instinct a father SHOULD have when their child loses their mother and is left in a foreign country is to immediately drop everything and come to their child’s aid. I’m NOT necessarily saying that Elian’s father is a bad parent. I’m saying that either he is a bad parent or he is under duress and cannot openly express his opinion. Regardless of which it is, it is obvious that it wouldn’t be fair to Elian, his father, or his deceased mother’s wishes, if we simply sent him back and washed our hands of him.
There IS more to the story than we all know. If Castro was so sure that all the father wanted was to get his son back in Cuba, why didn’t he let the father come here alone from the very beginning in order to pick up his son?!?!? What’s the deal with the child’s two grandmothers coming here instead of his father?!??! Did his father not care enough about his son to bother coming to get him, or was he being prevented from coming here by a desperate dictator who isn’t willing to lose any more PR battles by having such a public defection??? These are the questions we should be asking here. Until they’re answered, the boy should stay. I don’t see anything unreasonable about that whatsoever.
Regarding the conjectures above about the theoretical Iraqi parent and child: please go to http://www.state.gov and check that site for information about the huge number of “parental kidnapping” cases between parents of different nationalities. You might also want to note the State Department’s prominent notice on the site that the US government can do little, if anything, to assist in such a case, let alone “go to war.”
I never said the U.S. would or should go to war over a child. All I said was that Iraq (particularly in their present condition) better not do something like that.
Also, in case you only skimmed the rest of my post, I also mentioned that the U.S. better not do something like that either.
I also find it distressing that the father wouldn’t come to pick up his child.
Damn… if my son was alone in a foreign country, I would be on the next plane out to be with him. The hell with details – they could be worked out once I’d seen him and knew he was okay. Even if (especially if) the country was refusing to send him home, I wouldn’t want him to go through that alone.
What am I missing here? Didn’t the father refuse to go to the U.S. even after he was granted permission by Castro? What kind of parent won’t go overseas to pick up his stranded child?