I can’t believe the stink that has been raised over this issue.
Since when did how we feel about particular countries and their policies supercede parental rights? I understand that the Justice Department and courts have said he should go back; I’m referring to the sentiments by anti-Castro factions and others in South Florida.
The kid’s Mom died, his biological father wants him back, and there’s no evidence that the father would be abusive or neglectful. End of freaking story.
How would an American like it if, in a similar situation where they tried to reclaim custody of their child, they were denied that custody because they were a Libertarian or Reform Party member, or because somebody didn’t like the policies of the state where they lived?
Parental rights are above national boundaries and political ideologies.
“We are here for this – to make mistakes and to correct ourselves, to withstand the blows and to hand them out.” Primo Levi
I got this off another forum. I had forgotten about this story until I read about it today.
Do you guys remember this?
Here is a little more on that story from another poster:
I would not have supported sending a child back to Hitler, Mao or Stalin if he had escaped to America. Castro is no different from those mass murderers. The fathers pleas remind me of taped “confessions” we have seen of “war crimes” from American soldiers who were captured and then “volunteered” to renounce America under their own free will.
Any words that come out the father right now mean NOTHING to me. Not because I don’t respect his right to be a father to his child, but because I feel it is impossible to know what the father really thinks.
One, the right of Elian’s father to get his son back, and
Two, Elian’s right to live in a more prosperous and progressive country with greater opportunity. (I know that’s not actually a right, but you know what I mean.)
Elian’s father will probably prevail. I have very mixed feelings about that. I would only hope that, if I was Elian’s father, I’d be strong enough to allow my son to remain in the States. The thought of losing my son, though, would be heartbreaking.
Miami’s Cuban community seems to think that international law and the laws of their own country shouldn’t apply in this case. I’m sorry the kid’s mom died, and I’m sorry that being a young child in Cuba doesn’t offer the same economic opportunity as living in the U.S., but we can’t make an exception in this case and then send back all of the illegal immigrants from Haiti, Mexico, China, India, and all of the other countries that they come from. We obviously can’t let everybody stay, either, so the only logical choice is to send him back.
One other thing to consider, I think, is that those who suggest Elian should remain in the U.S. are operating under the presumption that Elian will have more opportunity and a better life here. I would argue that is not necessarily so.
Just look at the way immigrants have been treated in the past few years. Case in point, look at California where there is a raging debate over whether school should be taught English only or in Spanish also, and there is growing opposition to Mexican immigrants.
Let’s face it people, there are drugs, crime, poverty, homelessness, and rampant crime here in our wonderful country too, and being a Cuban-American immigrant doesn’t guarantee Elian a better life here.
Our own laws consistently provide that children should be with biological parents unless there is evidence of parental unfitness. There hasn’t been any such evidence uncovered in this case, and by our own standards Elian should return to Cuba and live with his father… AND his biological grandparents… all his closest relatives are there.
–I am Soren Kierkegaard.–
“People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.”
How much you want to bet, that if Elian’s father is permitted to come to Miami, he defects ON THE SPOT!
We should call Castro’s bluff-challenge him, and show the world what a farce his regime is!
Judging by the latest news I heard, this may be precisely what happens. It’s sort of calling both sides’ bluffs, really. The family here has said they’ll let Elian go back if his father comes to get him. Castro has said he’ll let the father come if the family will let Elian return with him.
The issue of what should happen with Elian legally is quite uncontested: he should be returned to his surviving parent. Anything else is unrelated to the legal issue of who should have custody of a minor child.
The whole situation makes one wonder when this country is going to learn to be reasonable about Cuba. I mean, for crying out loud, we have peace with Vietnam, why the hell can’t we repair relations with Cuba and then economically subjugate them again? Equating Castro with Hitler is irresponsible: and the poster who so suggested is invited to attend a session with surviving Holocaust members to learn the difference. Castro’s regime HAS been disruptive to Cuba’s economy, but how much of that is because the United States still equates him with being a red-bastard-commie-pinko ought-to-be-dead ruler and refuses to normalize economic relations? Hell, we treat that country worse than we treated the Soviet Union in the 80’s, worse by FAR than we treat China now.
The past is the past. At some point, we have to deal with the present and the future. Unless, of course, we wish to create the Western Hemisphere equivalent of Bosnia or Kosovo.
An assumption here is that we could ever really know what his father wants. Does anyone here doubt the possibility, and even the probability of Castro having threatened him, his remaining family and friends?
Isn’t there some legal precedent for removing somebody’s role as a decision maker if they are unable to make decisions?
With thousands of Cubans in the streets, I doubt Elian is going back anytime soon. Any Waco type missions will result in a lot of Federal deaths.
I disagree. Miami’s Cuban community obviously feels that Castro is a monster and that the father is not excercising his free will.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is a crazy point to even try and defend.
Cuba…USA…Cuba…USA…Cuba…
USA…
hhhmmmm…sure doesn’t seem like a tough choice to me.
I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he cares about his other children in Cuba, and his current wife. He is not going to defect because he doesn’t want them to be killed or jailed.
Uncontested? It sure doesn’t seem that way to me. I have seen active court proceedings throughout this case. You may not think it is a good case, but it is undeniably contested.
Small legal question for you.
If Elian’s father is unable to make his own decision because his family is being threatened, does that change the legal setting?
So I am not PC enough for you? Send me to a sensitivity class, remove my independent thoughts and replace them with your “approved” thoughts. I see why Cuba doesn’t bother you that much.
Did you read that whole post? That quote was from a forum, not a news article. I need to get SingleDad in here and tell you which logical fallacy you are running afoul of by dismissing the entire post becasue of one sentence.
Punch the guys name into your search engine and read about him your self. It doesn’t seem that that much of a challenge to me.
Freedom, it could be that I know little about Castro, but did he really commit crimes against humanity on the same level as Hitler? Please tell me what he did that corresponded to the attempted extermination of a race.
Freedom, your attitude is precisely indicative of the mindset of a majority of the Cuban-American community. Unfortunately, just because you and your community don’t like Castro does not mean that the United States should not abide by international law and diplomacy. IMHO, the community is flatly using this boy for their own selfish causes because the rest of the country (and the world) has started to ignore their alarms about how much of an asshole Castro they think Castro may be. Now they have this kid and they’re back in the limelight. Hoorah!
I don’t know a whole lot about Castro and Cuba, but I would guess that Castro is just as bad as any other dictator who has stayed in power for a number of years - Mobutu, Suharto, Sadam Hussein, Khadaffi. So sure, I agree that Castro is not a very benevolent leader, but he’s simply can’t be as bad as Hitler or Stalin or Mao and to suggest otherwise is just hyperbole and diminishes the scale of the atrocities committed by these men in the past. Castro may be evil, but his evil-ness has not and will not have the same influence on world history.
I agree that the father is probably being coerced by the Cuban government and I agree that the child would have a better life in the U.S. Unfortunately, he is a child and is incapable of making the decisions necessary to initiate the processes that would let him stay in this country legally. Our law stipulates that the custody of minors, and decisions for them thereof, are the responsibility of parents. Unless we have some specific reason to prove that the father is an unfit parent (NOT that Castro is a bad leader), our government can’t just unilaterally decide to keep the kid here. It’s against the law and is flatly undiplomatic in the world community.
I agree that if the father made it to the U.S., he would defect on the spot, but such speculation can’t and shouldn’t be used in light of the law. As a responsible nation, we have to give Cuba the benefit of the doubt.
BTW - I agree that Castro is a bad guy, but you can’t blame the poor plight of Cuba entirely on him. Cuba is poor mainly because the United States wants it to be poor. Unfortunately, the embargo will never be lifted because the Cuban community is too powerful politically. They want the embargo to continue because it then gives them the opportunity to show how bad of a guy Castro is, when in fact, he’s not entirely 100% to blame. Conversely, the longer the embargo stays in place, the longer Castro stays in control for similar reasons.
From a Legal standpoint Elian should be returned to his father in Cuba. It is not suggested that his father is unfit, just implied that the country is unfit. Elian will not return to execution or torture, but will be lauded as a returning hero.
No rational argument to keep him here, just many emotional ones.
I happen to think that Castro doesn’t quite fall to that category, but let’s agree with you for the moment. What criteria of national badness do you use to determine whether the child should stay? What if he was from Libya? Sri Lanka? The Sudan? Where is the threshold?
Under what authority is this decision made? Simply that he’s here? You don’t have to follow your own laws and international laws?
As alluded to earlier, this is far from resolved despite the court’s decision. How they will take the boy from his Miami home, through the protestors and back to Cuba remains unclear. And some in Congress are considering an end-around by voting to declare Elian a U.S. citizen – a move I would completely oppose.
“We are here for this – to make mistakes and to correct ourselves, to withstand the blows and to hand them out.” Primo Levi
I don’t know if Elian’s dad would want him to stay here if he could speak freely.
I’m a mom, I love my kids. I’d keep them if I were poor, even if they would have a better life with someone richer. The possibility of them being mistreated by the government would have to be pretty great before I’d give them up to live somewhere else. I don’t know that Castro’s Cuba is that bad. We aren’t talking about Jews getting their kids out of Germany in 1938, or women smuggling their daughters out of Afganistan – at least I don’t think we are. I think I’d want custody of my kids, to help them grow, and hope that Cuba would become a better place during their lifetime.
Maybe I’m a selfish mom - maybe I’m just firm in my belief that I’m the right mom for my kids.
Did anyone else see the quote from Elian where he thinks his mom is still alive and wandering around lost somewhere in Miami?
Now someone must have fed him this idea. I’m guessing that some of his relatives in Miami are telling him this so that when he is asked by members of the media he will say that he wants to stay in Miami.
The Cubans in Miami are incredibly fanatical on this whole issue. I have a friend who is a second generation Cuban American. I called her parents’ house in Miami a couple of days ago to get a current phone number for her. In place of small talk, her mother launched into an absolute tirade about the whole Elian situation. I was pretty taken aback.
My take on it is this:
Castro is what, 75 years old, give or take? I don’t see any chance of the Communist system in Cuba surviving his death. Communism in Cuba seems to be not much more than a Castro cult of personality. By the time this kid is grown, Cuba will be democratic. So send him back to his Dad, for crying out loud, and quit using him as a political football!
This is the attitude that wins no friends for americans (I do realise that most Americans do not think like this). The implicit assumption that every other country in the world must suck to live in because it is not the USA is wrong. The US may be rich, but what about being happy? There are happy people in Cuba, there are unhappy people in the USA. It is not a decision to be taken on the premise that the US is a divine creation.
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