:wally
If Cuba was so bad, wouldnt the dad, his wife, their baby, all Elian’s family have just STAYED?
Well, I for one think that it’s about time the poor kid was allowed to go home.
I also think that the behaviour of the ‘Miami relatives’ is beyond reprehensible. If I believed that there was a Hell, I’d wish them sent there. And I’d also have all those idiot supporters sent as well.
Sheesh. I mean, hell, if you gotta get so all fired up over some cause, why not pick one that deserves some attention. I have yet to hear or read a single argument for ‘keeping him in the US’ that carried any weight or was in the least bit relevent to the ‘best interests’ of the child.
And one more thing (this probably belongs in The Pit) if I hear one more reference to this childs mother being a martyr, I’m going to puke my guts out all over my keyboard. IM(not-so)HO, she was amongst the most unfit parents I’ve ever heard tell about. I won’t even let my child on the (quiet) street in front of my house. The idea of ever placing my own child in mortal danger is just so foreign to me, that I can’t even begin to understand what this thimble-brained twit was thinking. Effinhoe.
If I continue, this is going to turn into a full scale rant, with swearing even, so I will stop now. I’m new here, and kind of think that this belongs in the pit, but I was told that if you’re a newbie and post in the pit too soon, they come to your house in the middle of the night and beat you about the buttocks and upper thighs with a broken car antenna. Then they ban you, poke you with a sharp stick, crack open your skull and lay eggs in your brain. That would suck (being banned). So I’m going to play it safe and disembark from dis here soapbox.
Dewt
Well, all of Elian’s dad’s family weren’t here. Standard police state practice: when a well-known person (Elian’s daddy, for instance) goes to a country unfriendly to the regime, there’s always SOMEbody back home to use as a hostage, to insure their return.
If Cuba was so bad? Cuba IS so bad. It is a totalitarian regime where personal freedom does not exist, that hundreds of people a year feel a need to escape from. The Cubans in the U.S. passionately hate Castro for a reason.
Oh yes, and Elian was not an illegal immigrant. His mother’s presumed intent was to seek asylum, which would have made him a political refugee.
Delfin Gonzalez? Isn’t he the fisherman who became like a uncle/father to Elian, the one who saved him from the raft?
If that is the case, then heads up, folks: Delfin is the Spanish word for dolphin.
Hee hee…I suppose a “dolphin” did save him, then.
Here we go again. I’ve posted this about five times, but it’s hard to keep up with all the newbies here.
True, Elián was not an illegal immigrant when he arrived, because of the Cuban Adjustment Act which allows any Cuban who makes it to US shores to remain. However, this has NOTHING to do with asylum. These Cubans do not need to apply for asylum - only those who do not make it to US shores need to apply for asylum. (And contrary to popular belief, they do NOT always receive it - I think the approval rate is about 50%, which is higher than the average country’s, but still indicates that a fair number of cases are rejected. I can’t get load the INS page that has the data right now.)
For the Cubans who do make it to US, the status they are granted is called parole, which is just the INS term for permission to enter the country for nonresident aliens without visas. The INS has the authority to determine the conditions of parole and they revoked Elián’s when his Miami relatives refused to hand him over. At that point, he did indeed become an illegal immigrant.
Finally, whether or not one intends to seek asylum has no bearing upon whether or not one is an illegal immigrant. If you enter the country illegally, you’re illegal until you’re granted permission to remain.
There’s also a difference between asylees and refugees, but that’s enough for now.
Oh, and one more thing:
Sr González was in DC for 2 1/2, close to 3 months. He was under pretty much constant observation. Those who met with and spoke to and watched the man all seem to be convinced he really did want to return to Cuba. If he was only pretending to do so out of fear, you’d think somebody would have sussed that.
Look, Lucretia, not everybody in Cuba wants to leave. Try to get over your own personal politics and accept that. Not everyone is living badly there; by all accounts the Gonzálezes weren’t. The idea that this child should have been kept from his father because nobody could really want to leave this country for that one is exactly the kind of arrogance that makes the rest of the world consider Americans a bunch of jingoistic putzes.
Ruadh, you rock.
If for some reason my wife were to take one of my kids abroad, die, and have her relatives take custody and keep him from me, I WOULD HUNT THEM DOWN AND STOMP THEM INTO DIRT.
Stop the political pretense…kids belong with their parents.
Ruffian, Delfin Gonzales is a great-uncle. Donato Dalrymple and Sam Ciancio rescued Elian. Dalrymple is the complete nut who was hiding in the closet with Elian when the dolphin showed up to rescue him.
Hurray! Now we can all go on with our lives again.
It’s good to have this Bulls**T story come to a conclusion. It has to be one of the lamest excuses for a media frenzy in years.
The boy shoulda been allowed to go with his father, back home, to Cuba, as soon as he was located.
Now he’s back in the hands of the totalitarian regime, boo-hoo. As long as our country is no longer divided by this crap, I don’t care.
Oh, and Lucretia, you’re really on top of things around here. :wally
-Sam
That family in Florida has to be one of the most F*CKED up excuses for a family unit I’ve ever seen.
To see their mock emotion and watch them blow this out of proportion as if it was their child was, IMO, disgusting.
-Sam
A. Children belong with their parents. Unless it
can be proven that a parent is unfit or abusive,
nobody has the right to take the child away.
B. People in this country have to abide by the
laws of the country. The Miami relatives came
over here agreeing to do so. If the laws return
Elian to his father; well, that’s that.
I think the character bashing can stop now.
Indeed, he was under constant observation, by Cuban as well as U.S. officials. I have no difficulty believing that a person can put up a credible front knowing the welfare of his family was at risk.
I am quite aware of the fact that not everybody in Cuba wants to leave. I have met and spoken to former Eastern Germans that positively mourn the fall of the wall.
I am quite willing to concede that Elian’s father may have genuinely wanted to return, have no problem understanding him wanting to take his child with him. However, there is no way to know for sure if that is what he really wanted, because Cuba is a country where the government regularly holds families hostage to their family members good behavior. Anyone who disputes that is simply naive.
One thing we do know for sure is that his mother did want to leave, indeed, was desperate enough to do so on a raft. In my opinion, her (presumed)wishes should have been given more consideration than they were. She certainly shouldn’t have been dismissed as some ditz willing to risk her child’s life because she was horny.
As to whether the Gonzalezes were living badly, as I said before, living well involves more than money for some people. Many of the people escaping from Cuba and other communist states are and have been well respected, well off professionals. Some people value personal autonomy as much as money, and are willing to risk their lives to get it.
ruadh, thank you for the clarification on the illegal immigrant thing. I was under the immpression that he was still classified as a political refugee until all his appeals were exhausted.
And Gawd, I’m a putz because I happen to disagree with you on this? Whatever.
Shoot, tried to stop it but I was too late. The above is my post, not Bluesman.
As a newbie, I hate to jump into a “political” thread, but I do make this observation about Lazaro:
I thought it was funny how he wanted to physically attack the media yesterday when he learned of The Departure. Throwing his fist at the cameraman was an interesting character development for a man and his family that could not stay out of the spotlight these six LONG months.
Live by the laws, people. The nine justices on the Supreme Court made the right decision.
Or go riot. I don’t care.
Hi, Mom! ::crazed hand-wavings and arm-flailings:: WOOOOOOOOO!
http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/rafters99/docs2/085367.htm
Here is a link to a story run by the Miami Herald which seems to verify that the reason Elian’s mother took to the seas was so she could be with her boyfriend. No other reason, just to be with her boyfriend.
US officials had him alone at times and communicated with him by passing notes to eliminate any risk of bugs in the room. There were no Cubans observing him then.
In any case, I repeat that it takes an enormous leap of faith to imagine he could fool everyone over that length of time. I’ll grant that it’s an outside possibility - but that’s the extent of your evidence: it could be true. It’s absurd to think the expressed desires of a father should be disregarded (in favor of, as you put it, the “presumed” desires of a dead mother!) on such a flimsy basis.
When did I say it involved money? I think it’s well known that many of the Miamians were members of Cuba’s middle class. The point is that the Gonzálezes do not seem to have been suffering in ANY way - economic, political or otherwise; indeed, Elián’s father is said to be an enthusiastic Castro supporter. The point I am trying to make is that regardless of how many other people might want to leave Cuba, there is no reason to believe this particular person wanted to, and much reason to believe the contrary. You’re basing your assumptions about his true wishes on YOUR political beliefs, not on his.