Ok
Well, I hope at least that rat avatar has enjoyed this stimulating conversation with himself.
The latter, especially considering the large talent pool she’s facing off against.
The best politicians aren’t people who never make mistakes. The best politicians are people who learn from their mistakes. She apparently knows consumer protection, but keeps making mistakes in politics.
She doesn’t need to apologize to the Cherokee Nation because their spokesperson LIED about what she did. She does not claim membership of the Cherokee Nation. She simply took a DNA test to show that she does have some Native American ancestry, in response to a claim that she has no Native American ancestry.
Their minority status is not a trump card that makes them right. If they state something that is factually inaccurate, then I will not agree with them.
And the fact that she was responding to a racist taunt, but they only condemn her and not the racist makes me question their motives. Even if they genuinely think that what Warren did was wrong (whether due to misinformation or accurate information), they should just as equally go out against Trump for how he attacked her.
But, as I suspected and just confirmed, the Cherokee Nation sided with Trump in 2016. They claim to care about racism, but then side with the much more racist guy. So, sorry, their official opinion means the same to me as that of other Trump supporters who give his racism a pass.
Also, while there is no scientific test for race, there is a way to trace ancestry. And Warren was not being tested for race, but for ancestry.
Sure, she did some bad stuff in the past, making the not unusual white assumption that stories about one’s ancestry are true, and not realizing certain implications. But she has in fact apologized for that stuff.
But she should not apologize to the Cherokee Nation for lying about her.
The Cherokee Nation has an official business arm, called Cherokee Nation Businesses, which is a holding company with interests in the gaming (as in gambling), aerospace, defense, and real estate industries…that’s a combination of business interests that would seem to me to be more favorable towards a Republican president, regardless of who it was.
Please show me documentation where she apologized?
And who did she apologize to? How about actually reading what actual Native voices are saying.
I see no evidence she has ever apologized for harmful misconceptions about Native identity, Warren perpetuating them.
Remember in 2012, she said that her family knew they were Native because some relatives had high cheekbones, “like all of the Indians do.”
Her DNA test only shows that she may have an ancestor who was indigenous to Mexico, Colombia or Peru. Using this test to support her claim of Cherokee heritage is not only false based on the science, but also perpetuates a common and racist stereotype that Native Americans are a homogeneous group.
The stuff about the cookbook reminds me of developments here in Baja Canada, where local members of the Lakota are trying to launch a restaurant with Native American cuisine. Word has it they are advertising for a Sioux chef.
Sorry, my bullshit meter just exploded into a thousand fragments.*
*one of which was a Native American fragment.
We have a traitor and criminal in the White House.
He’s a narcistic, bigoted, racist moron. The stupid fuck can’t string an idea together on Twitter.
He shows us every day that he doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself.
And people are worried if Warren is Native American enough?
Speaking only for myself, I agree with your first three paragraphs 100%, every word. On her worst day Elizabeth Warren is not 0.001% as horrible as Donald Trump manages to be in any given hour.
So in the sense of “are you saying that Warren’s actions here make her as bad as Donald Trump?” the answer to me (and I suspect to just about everyone else in the thread) is clearly No, Not close, Not a chance, No way.
But the important thing in two years is gonna be to get that “narcissistic, bigoted, racist moron” out of there, and the questions in this thread (again, at least from where I sit) are:
–Has Warren done herself so much harm (by being possibly stupid and possibly insensitive) that she now has no realistic shot at winning the nomination, and
–If she does win the nomination, has she does herself so much harm (by possibly showing that Trump can easily get under her skin) that she will have no realistic shot at defeating “the stupid fuck”?
YM obviously Vs, but I think these are important questions on the path to making sure that the “traitor and criminal in the White House” doesn’t get to be in the White House any more.
To me, this whole thing is ridiculous. But then, I grew up spitting distance from Oklahoma, and more importantly around “mixed” persons of various kinds. Indians just seem like normal people to me. I wish we taught indigenous languages in public schools.
But I read about white attitudes in some parts of the USA, and it seems like other white people have a very, very different idea about race. It seems to go something like this:
She’s a half-breed, and if there’s one thing whitey hates more than savages, it’s the idea of savages breeding with the Master Race.
Is that really what it is? I don’t know. It may be closer to the real problem folks have with her than whatever rat avatar is going on about (I gave up even trying to read his posts in this thread after the first several).
I don’t really care what Principal Chief Bill John Baker says. Betsy Warren is my kind of people, much like folks I grew up around: She’s part of the dominant Anglo culture but with some unashamed Indian heritage. It bothers me that the larger unadmixed white culture are out to get her, and it offends me to see statements of the leaders of the Cherokee Nation being used for that nonsense somehow.
Show me where you read this, other than some white supremacist site, or that stupid Cher song. I’ve never heard this perspective advocated by anyone, not even drunken rednecks in private company. (I have heard drunken rednecks claim partial Native American ancestry themselves, though most likely it’s just a “family legend” like Warren’s.) I’ve never heard it and I’ve never read it, not even on The_Donald reddit which I lurked on avidly during the 2016 election. Despite voting Democrat, I think I have kept a pretty good pulse on conservative America over the last 10 years, and anti-Native-American sentiment doesn’t seem to be a very big part of it. (I can’t say the same for blacks and Muslims, although they seem to welcome both into their tent if they’re sufficiently conservative.)
Also, why do you call her Betsy? I’ve never seen her called that anywhere but in your posts.
No people are worried she is too obsessed with proving she is Cherokee which demonstrates she is also a narcissistic, bigoted, racist moron.
If you haven’t noticed elections that are (pick the lesser of two evils) tend to have low turnout which also tend to favor the Republicans.
Unless she has an about face, which is already too late, she will help keep Trump in office even if he is more of a narcissistic, bigoted, racist moron in office.
If Senator Warren wasn’t being groomed as the next potential POTUS I doubt many people would care. People will announce support for BLM but we haven’t reach the point in our country where even the left cares about our Native populations being subject to racism as demonstrated by the responses in this thread.
Yes, you’re also saying you believed it. You had no reason not to, did you? It would be hard to be a several-generations white peron in Oklahoma *without *being part Indian.
Clearly, being accused of lying rankled her, as it should have. The test was obviously intended to prove she really is part Indian, which it did, and to get the hyenas to shut up. But the hyenas are *not *shutting up, as this thread helps illustrate, because the hate isn’t based on fact, or at least not *that *fact. My own suspicion is that it’s due to a combination of her being female, outspoken (“Nevertheless, she persisted”), and an opponent of the interests of the true bosses of the Republican Party.
She claimed to be Cherokee, please explain how her test demonstrated that (even if I accept the line of thinking).
The fact that you are lumping all native groups into “Indians” is the problem BTW. None of the DNA samples they compared Warren to were even from the US BTW. Those results would have been more valid if she was claiming to be Latin American.
She had shared segments from samples in Mexico, Colombia or Peru, feel free to convince me that makes her Cherokee.
I could have said the same until recently. I have just noticed lately stories online that hint at a sort of immense contempt for Indians in certain quarters, one that I certainly did not grow up with. I think it’s a regional difference.
Betsy is what her brothers called her in the video she released after the DNA test. It’s probably a bit too familiar, but I just like the way “Betsy Warren” flows.
You’ve been informed of the paucity of DNA samples from Indians forcing broader groupings than would be the case for European haploids, haven’t you?
Go ahead and pretend she really did say something you can hate her for if you like. You clearly are looking for excuses anyway, and will therefore find them.
You realize there are lots of reasons that DNA evidence doesn’t exist, and a lot of it is due to the political efforts to homogenize half the worlds population into one racist group called “Indians”
http://genetics.ncai.org/tribal-enrollment-and-genetic-testing.cfm
Despite your ad hominem, my belief is that there are lots of candidates, including female candidates within the party that aren’t encumbered by Warren’s type of racism and a lack of judgement.
Feel free to keep calling me names, but I am more concerned with winning an election than the Democrats wish to protect cronyism.
Sorry, I’m compelled to nitpick this: it isn’t anywhere near half the world’s population. It’s so far from half that it doesn’t even work as hyperbole. Still a lot of people, mind you.