Yeah, that’s a good point. I was thinking in terms of babies who grow into adolescence or their late teens and then lose the only parent(s) they’ve ever known. In my opinion, this loss is made even worse by the fact that children who lose their parents before they’re grown also have to adjust to new people being in charge of them and whose ways may be quite alien to what they’re used to. Older kids who’ve experienced orphanages and foster homes would likely not be so adversely affected.
No, they expect bribes from everyone, both gay couples and the straight ones that fit all the rules.
And I don’t hear about adoptions agencies being shut down over this. Heck, is there any government agency in Ukraine that doesn’t operate with bribes?
Even here in Minnesota, there are bribes. My uncle adopted my cousin in 1953 from a religious adoption agency here, and he mentioned once the bribes he had to pay. The semi-official ones were called additional (never mentioned before) ‘fees’, while the cash ones that workers expected were just ‘tips’. But bribes was the accurate term. (And that agency hasn’t been closed down – it’s still operating today.)
Yep, “You’re too old and not married. We have laws against that,” is just their opening gambit.
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It’s Ukraine, not the Ukraine.
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I wouldn’t bet on Ukraine being admitted into the EU any time soon. The only country I can see being admitted in the near future is Croatia. (Or Switzerland, should they decide they want to.)
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There are several current EU member states, mostly in Central and Eastern Europe, where homosexuality is not socially acceptable. IME, the EU mandated laws regarding the rights of homosexuals are not mandated/taken very seriously in these places.
Besides, I would not be quick to jump on the idea that the marriage requirement is (only) cover for excluding gays. In many countries there is a concern about adoption placements of ANY kind with single males, being seen as involving a risk of child trafficking for less-than-benign purposes.
I have to go along with Sampiro here. There is no “right” to adopt an Ukrainian child; the law preexists Elton’s application, so to waive it in this case would be privileging one case over others. The time to err on the side of compassion, PunditLisa, is when the regulation is written, or when applied IF there’s space open to interpretation. If you exempt Elton you have to exempt ALL older males, not just rich and famous ones. That’s for the Ukrainian parliament to legislate.
And t-bonham, it may have been so for your uncle in 1953, but laws have changed and today there would likely be hell to pay if that Minnesota agency were hidden-cam taped working on an under-the-table baksheesh basis. Actually, y’know what? I would NOT go anywhere for adoption where it’s “expected” that there’ll be bribes. There’s plenty of kids in foster care in my town.
Think about that kid twenty years from now, when he finds out he was adopted by a bus driver because the rules didn’t allow the megamillionaire pop star to adopt him. “Gee thanks for not letting me be rich”
Besides, it’s an orphan. He’s already faced it. It’s bound to be easier the second time.
**Just in case someone takes me too seriously: This is gallows humor. I’m not actually suggesting that losing parents gets any easier with practice.
I really can’t agree with this at all. For one, anyone can lose their parents at a young age. Using Michael Jackson as an example doesn’t really work for you as 50 is youngish to die. Secondly, my father was in his late sixties when I was born, and died when I was 14. It was hard for me, but I had a really great Dad that cared about me, and I wouldn’t have traded that for a younger father. That’s really the only important thing, the love and care the kid will get. And for kids waiting to be adopted, well, I can’t see depriving them of it because a parent might die.
Whether you meant that as snark or not it’s actually a fair real world point.
I agree 100% with Dangerosa that there should not be a different set of rules for rich celebrities. I don’t agree with the rules in this case, but I say change the rules, don’t bend the rules. That will help far more children in the long run.
Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.
There are the bribes that in international adoption are considered acceptable, and there are the bribes you can get shut down for. Bribes that bend the rules, that allow couples to adopt that otherwise cannot adopt, put programs into jeopardy. Since Ukraine does not allow gay couples to adopt, this comes under the category of the second. Its risky, and as someone who has watched parents get stuck in adoption limbo when their program gets shut down, its heartbreaking when it happens.
Most Eastern European countries (most international adoptions) have a bribery component that is part of the cost of doing business, but when you are paying people to overlook the rules set by the country (whatever those are), the U.N. gets upset about it, the State Department gets upset about it, and when you get caught, you get shut down - with waiting parents and waiting children in the pipeline.
And the State Department doesn’t shut down the agency, they stop adoptions for the entire country. So this agency hasn’t been caught yet, that’s good.
1953 was a different time in adoptions - we are now very concerned about “baby selling” - particularly over international borders.
While there are few downsides to having money,
1- Christina Crawford and her brother are but two who were adopted by a rich famous star but would probably have preferred adoption by a bus driver
2- Elton’s estate will likely be like Michael Jackson’s (aka a muddled mess that will take years to sort through) so there’s no assurance his kids would be left rich
The Jackson kids are getting $86,000 per month to live on while the estate is being settled. I’d say they weren’t hurting.
As the parent of an adopted Ukranian child, I can confirm this. We adopted our son soon after Chernenko was reforming the corruption in the country in an attempt to get Ukraine into the EU. As such, there were ‘gifts’ that allowed us to get to the front of the line with certain agencies and to gain favor, but what had once been a rule regularly broken, regarding a ‘cool down’ period before you could take the child home, suddenly was being enforced by the courts around the country.
It has been about 5 years since the adoption, but I seem to remember single people being able to adopt from Ukraine then (or perhaps it was Georgia or Belarus?), but the age limitation was a huge one on many many countries, and not just limited to Eastern Europe.
China allows “single women” to adopt. For years this was a “don’t ask, don’t tell” back door for lesbian adoptions. Eventually, China specifically forbid lesbian adoptions. There are a lot of agencies that will do a home study for a “single woman with a roommate” and choose not to look into the adopting person’s sexuality, but China will not (at least last I heard) approve a dossier from two women who are a couple.
Which in spite of what you may have heard has absolutely nothing to do with why I’m pressing my bio-father rights on the issue. I just want my babies back!
Well, he is pretty old.
Not any more. China has always said that only heterosexuals can adopt. This was flagrantly violated, and there was a period where singles had to write and notarize a statement that they were heterosexual. Then there was a cap put on the number of singles who could adopt, and then it was ended.
As a single woman with one child from China, who will not be able to adopt another one (that rule will NOT be changing -ever), I have a whole rant about this, but I’ll spare you.
No one has the right to adopt a child. No one is entitled to a parent a child, just because they want one. Duly constituted legal authorities have the right to make decisions about what kind of parents are in the best interest of the child, and no one has the right to ignore or circumvent them, just because they are “backward” or “bigoted.” Once the laws are flouted, you are into trafficking children, and let’s just all agree that that’s flat out wrong.
Thanks, I wasn’t up on what was current for China. When we adopted (a few years before you did) it was a “wink wink don’t tell” on homosexual adoption from the U.S. agency side. By the time our son was home (from Korea) it had moved onto CHSM saying “we can’t let people do that anymore, they are going to close the program if we do” - and the notarized letters. Its sad to hear that they’ve closed it to singles entirely.